Joan Planellas: "A Catalan Episcopal Conference with the bishops we have would impoverish us very much"

TarragonaThe Archbishop of Tarragona, Joan Planellas, attends to ARA from the Archbishop's Palace, seven years after taking office. He is also president of the Tarraconense Episcopal Conference, which brings together Catalan bishops.

How does he value the Pope's first year? What contact does he have with Leo XIV?

— In a very hopeful way. When I was able to speak with him, I realized that he is a person who listens deeply. In a very complex ecclesial and global context, in a society as secularized as ours, why does the Pope have so much resonance? Perhaps it is because we lack great moral references. And the Pope has remained as a moral reference for us in the face of the crisis of great politicians who go to do business for very specific interests.

At the beginning of his election it seemed that he would continue the reformist line, but more moderate. But lately he has directly replied to Donald Trump on issues of peace and immigration.

— For him, the touchstone is the Gospel, it is consistent with this. He is an American who has trodden the social reality of poverty. Not in vain, he took Leo, thinking of Leo XIII, who faced the whole problem of the industrial revolution in a very convincing way and marked an era when the working class was despised.

Now we are in a reinforcement of a globalized capitalism. Also very harsh. Will there be a response from the Pope?

— I think so, it can be reflected in the same visit this June. Now we also have another revolution, that of artificial intelligence, which marks the progress of our society and which must go in accordance with the dignity of the human person. Artificial intelligence can be detrimental to the dignity of the human person when it only favors the interests of those who manipulate it through algorithms.

The Pope is positioning himself as a strong voice to contrast financial capitalism, the far-right…

— The great world powers have been able to regress in the dignity of the human person and are driven by political and economic interests. When a great world leader says that it is in their interest to take a certain action, it leads to cuts in NGOs in the Third World that try to alleviate the deficits that many of these countries have. This has consequences for global migration. If we cut at the source, we force larger migrations.

The Pope has strongly defended migrants, welcoming them...

— Yes, of course. When one is forced to emigrate, what must one do? One must try to make this welcome...

A welcome with great political opposition from the far right.

— This [to welcome] is what the Church tries to do with all its humility, it does its bit to alleviate these indigences.

He agrees with the bishop of the Canary Islands, who said that many people “should get into a raft” before talking about immigration.

— The bishop of the Canary Islands is very committed to migration and has had very interesting interventions in the Spanish Episcopal Conference. The Pope will go to the Canary Islands to see this reality.

Last summer you said that a xenophobic attitude, like the one seen in Spanish and Catalan politics, is not Christian.

— Yes, certainly. It came out naturally. And then I saw that something that is obvious is news. And I said to myself: when you say obvious things and they are news, it means that something is not quite working.

What is wrong with society?

— Novelty, difference, is something innate in the human person. The issue of migration is very complex. I understand that there is this diversity. Here the serious problem is housing, which is under a lot of pressure and causes tensions. There should be housing policies that do not centralize immigrant groups in the same neighborhood. Recently, I signed an agreement with President Illa to cede properties and plots to the Generalitat to create social housing.

Much emphasis is placed on the Muslim issue, on the cultural difference it entails.

— The important difference will not be so much with a Latin American who can be Catholic or Christian, as with one who comes from another religion such as Muslim, which indeed implies a cultural reality very different from ours. Often there is a lack of dialogue, empathy. Last week, at the Caritas meeting in the neighborhoods, I met an Algerian girl who is working at Caritas and is Muslim. Meeting people leads to this integration, this is positive.

Does the dehumanization of others by politicians who identify as Catholic surprise you?

— Christianity, Catholicism, can be manipulated or exploited by both the right and the left. It is very complex. There are issues within the Church that society might classify as very right-wing, such as abortion and euthanasia, which are important. And other issues that might seem more left-wing: everything the Church says about migration. It is very ambivalent and this is the richness of Christianity, because it does not align with any political option. Sometimes we have to be criticized, but that will not stop us from proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are not politicians.

Do you think that with the Pope, within the Church, there will be an important progressive advance or will the more conservative sectors slow down the change?

— The Church has a roadmap that was set sixty years ago, we are not talking about Pope Francis, it was set by the Second Vatican Council, which, certainly, Pope Francis has been following.

When will we have women fully incorporated into the Church, women priests?

— It is a very complex issue, also because the Church is universal. It is emerging in Africa and Asia, where there are very different visions. A decision of this kind could even involve serious problems of communion [schism]. What are we doing? Implementing greater involvement of women in ecclesial life. It is not so much a matter of ordination as of the participation of women in decisions, in delegations, in the curia…

Is there a resurgence of the Catholic faith?

— Yes, there has been a resurgence in these last ten years. Ten years ago it was extraordinary for a twenty-year-old young man to come to you saying he wanted to be baptized. What happens in France, then comes here: ten years ago, according to data from the French Episcopal Conference, there were 4,000 people over 18 years old who had requested baptism. This year the archbishop of Lyon spoke of 22,000 people. In Tarragona, in these last five years it has multiplied by five. And in Catalonia, this Easter it has been 500 people. In the rest of the state, we have to add 2,500 more. Faced with the existential void, people ask themselves questions.

There are pending reliefs, such as in the archbishopric of Barcelona. What profiles would be appropriate?

— I don't think that this and other changes in the Catalan Church are imminent or of this year, no matter how much it is said that they will be after the Pope's visit. I have the impression that the matter may drag on. Cardinal Omella [Archbishop of Barcelona, eighty years old] enjoys excellent health, he has been doing well. For me, he has been like an older brother. Faced with the concrete problems I have had, I have often consulted him... And in this process, no one is proposed here for changes.

Do you think the Pope still needs to find his place?

— Yes, I imagine the Pope wants to keep seeing. There has been a lot of speculation, I am a little perplexed. Personally, I am very well in Tarragona, I plan to continue here. The Pope will decide the best person for a reality that is very complex.

How would a Catalan bishop go to Barcelona after so many years?

— We have had bishops who speak Catalan since the time of Cardinal Jubany, in 1971.

Is the document "Arrels Cristianes" still in force defending the Catalan national reality?

— That is doctrine. It was the application here, in our home, of the Second Vatican Council. From here we must also strive for our identity, our country, our language, our culture, our character. They are important. Torras i Bages worked for this with the spiritual visit to Our Lady of Montserrat; it is what we Catalans must pray. Afterwards, Torres i Bages wrote to the first president of the League, and told him: “Pray this so that political fervor does not wither your spirit.”

Is an eventual Catalan Episcopal Conference engaging in politics? Is having the Spanish one not engaging in politics?

— Perhaps I will be politically incorrect, but I believe that a Catalan Episcopal Conference with the ten bishops we have and with the reality we have, would impoverish us greatly. And now I am more convinced of this than before. Being part of the [Spanish] Episcopal Conference is a brutal asset. For example, it has produced an interesting document on religious emotivism. We go there and we are welcome, we collaborate in many things. It has an asset that we would not have here due to the amount of work that needs to be done... Here we have the two ecclesiastical provinces that work together in the Tarraconense Episcopal Conference [which informally groups the Catalan bishoprics], we meet four times a year. What more do you want? This is very important.

What does the Church do for the Catalan language and what should it do?

— It is the language of our people, of our Christians. We also have classes, run by Caritas, and now there is a new development that from the Ministry of Linguistic Policy of the Generalitat they will offer us Catalan classes for migrants in the parishes. We also have a collection of Church documents in Catalan that is being digitized with a subsidy from the ministry and we will be able to present it before Christmas.

Do priests who come from outside adopt Catalan?

— We have created what we call the Convictori to attend to the new arrivals from here and those who have come from outside, to make an adaptation. It is very convenient that they adapt to the reality of the country, to the language. If you want to stay here, you have to speak Catalan and Spanish.