Sigfrid Gras: "We fill our mouths with the BBC, but if we don't respect the independence of TV3, we will die"

BarcelonaThis September, Sigfrid Gras's term as director of TV3 ends, pending whether the Corporation's governing council renews it for two more years. Taking advantage of the end of the season, we review how this season has gone and the future plans for this public television.

TV3 ends the season as leader and growing three tenths, but La1 rises 1.4 points and is beginning to approach it. What is your assessment of the season?

— For us, it has been excellent: we have risen and have had 23 uninterrupted months of leadership. Televisió Espanyola also plays in our league and is doing a good job, but it depends on other factors and a programming that will last as long as it lasts. It is always easier for us to compete when the PP governs than when the Socialist Party governs, because it is easier to compete against Pablo Motos' puppets than against La Revuelta.

Is La1's current model, saturated with infotainment and talk shows, TV3's previous model?

— I don't think so. La 1 in Spain is more about “You are on one side or the other”. TV3 is more focused and we try to reach the entire Catalan population. La1 has a policy and programming more directed towards the progressive public, while when the PP governs it has another type of programming, more conservative. We want to be much more transversal, and I think we are.

Well, in the previous stage TV3 was accused of being Teleprocés.

— Yes, and now there are many political parties that accuse us of being nyordos, going with the 'enya' and all that. We try to represent all of Catalan society, with things that are non-negotiable like the defense of Catalan identity and language. Whether one party or another governs, we will not change that.

I ask differently: TV3 is a leader despite having removed political content. If this genre returned, would it get even more audience?

— It is true that there was a time when we considered that it had to be depoliticized because the chain was very politicized. Now we are in a politically different moment, in which many debates are opening up: racism, the extreme right, social movements, housing... We will try to delve into them. Rather than politicizing it again, it would be to put elements of debate on these issues.

How will they do it?

— Ramon Pellicer's program, which we will launch in September, will be a good example of this. And in January, we are looking to put programs with social ideas on the table. That is to say, we want more spaces like Quanta guerra and less pure entertainment. We want to move towards more reflective television in the coming months and years.

This course the news programs have been renewed. The evening one has risen 1.1 points, but the midday one has fallen 1.6. They continue to be leaders, but overall they are falling half a point.

— Going up or down half a tenth happens to us often. What matters is that we have opened a new universe. And that we are a benchmark for rigor. In an era of fake news we want everyone to know that anything that comes out of our media is true. Not only in the TV3 news reports, but also in all the new ways of consuming that we are distributing through 3Cat. If we had fallen 5 points I would be worried, but this half point that may have been lost with the Telenotícies, we have surely gained it on the platform with people who inform themselves in other ways.

3CatInfo repeats the 1.6% share, which is what 3/24 had the previous season. Was all the brand fuss worth staying the same?

— With 3CatInfo we want to create a global information brand. We must tend towards global news with common newsrooms. Not because people work more, but to take advantage of the talent that exists in both places. From here, the brand, honestly, worries me little.

Does he only explain the internal protests that have arisen then as resistance to change?

— No, I understand that the staff may be worried. As director of TV3 I can say that TV3 exists now and will always exist. For me, TV3 will not cease to exist, otherwise, I would not be here.

Beyond the audience achieved, is this where I wanted to be with the new news model?

— With all the problems we've been through, yes. Because now we finally have global news: you get informed wherever you want, whenever you want, or with the device you want. You can spend an hour a day on it, or a minute, but you know that the information we provide you is good.

This year Jordi González also premiered as the presenter of Col·lapse. He achieved a 12.5%, which is one point less than Ustrell last season.

— We are not worried. Jordi González does a great job, and as long as he gets this 12, no problem. If it drops, we'll worry more. Next season there will be more international interviews and also some change of collaborators, to give it a boost.

More international interviews means admitting that this last season many interviewees from the Spanish universe have been used?

— No, 80% of the interviews we have conducted are in Catalan. This thing about Spanish on TV3 is a myth. If you compare the television that was made 20 years ago and the one now, we don't have more Spanish. What happens is that sometimes it is interesting to say that there is a lot of Spanish on TV3, but it is not true. In the era of the "Procés", with the FAQs, we had a lot of Spanish. But because we saw that there were people from Madrid defending us, we found it amusing. And now, if you have Spanish, it means you are very Spanish. Well, no. I repeat, Catalan is our base, our priority.

I finish the audience block with La selva by Xavier Graset. It rises a little, from 9.5% to 10.2%, but it does not reach the channel's average and it continues to be a slot that TV3 does not quite get right.

— The afternoon is difficult. Here it is very hard for us to touch the grid and we always have to remember the budget. Perhaps we could do more fiction in the afternoon, but the talks, as you well know, are more economical.

But he is the director with the largest budget for content in the last fifteen years...!

— Home, I don't think so, honestly.

Ask those who had to manage Mas's cuts.

— Well, but we are betting heavily on exclusive content from 3Cat, which costs a lot of money. The big event is an expensive program, for example. And the budget also goes to EVA, to children's programming... it's not just for TV3.

If the programs most aimed at a young audience go to 3Cat, is there no danger of accelerating the obsolescence of the TV3 channel, where 61% of the audience is over 65 years old, but it is still a massive and relevant window?

— We don't think so, because we try to take advantage of 3Cat programs for TV3 as well. The approach is global. The idea, however, is that 3Cat allows our universe to expand and reach a younger audience than we have on TV3.

The course has been marked by the arrival of La 2 Cat from RTVE. Does the competition it may cause worry it?

— I am not worried about La 2 Cat. Who harms us more, between quotes, is La 1. Let's see, I'm worried that it might take away screen share and we will always watch it closely. But it is good for the country, and even for TV3, that there is more Catalan. We aspire, and we are achieving it, to be the hegemonic channel in Catalonia. In La 2 Cat, in fact, they have a drawback, which is that the programs with the most audience, like Malas lenguas, are in Spanish.

Are relations cordial?

— Yes.

But naming it La 2 Cat when 3Cat already existed did not go down well in the house.

— To me, honestly, I don't care. It made me laugh a bit. They said they wouldn't put it, but in the end they have. I don't think the name will bring them much benefit or much loss.

I have reviewed the interview I conducted with him in November 2022, when he had just taken office. He told me: “We have a roadmap that marks the children's audience as the top priority”. The feeling is that this objective has not been achieved.

— We have achieved it halfway. We made a series of attempts that went very well at first and then the offer deflated. Now we have made another roadmap. Over the years, we have learned that we have to recreate our own universe. And we already have exhibitions, plays, spaces where children can go and experience the Super3 characters beyond the screen. It has to be a combination between animated cartoons, which cost a lot of money, and this own universe.

Should we declare the SX3 television channel dead, though?

— No, no. We have now moved up to second position among the children this month.

Well, it was at its historic low. Let me quote Groucho Marx, when he said that “We came out of nothing to reach the highest peaks of misery”.

— Well, after misery, we will move forward towards glory: it must be an additional resource, but not the main one, because for the child audience the entry point is digital, it is 3Cat. In any case, we do not see that we have to give up the SX3 channel on television.

The idea of undoing the strange mix between SX3 and Canal 33, which share the hours of the same frequency, has been around for a long time. La 2 is doing very well and has had its best season in the last 16. Doesn't Catalonia deserve a cultural channel worthy of the name?

— Oh, but the thing is that La 2 in Spain has the same budget as we had for TV3 6 or 7 years ago. That says it all. They can afford things that we can't. We can spend a total of about 80 or 90 million on buying content, and La 1 has paid 55 million just for the World Cup, which is consumed in a month.

There are 2,500 employees, in the Corporation. And a lot of talent, specifically in the field of culture.

— Yes, yes. But we have all 2,500 workers employed. All the cultural programs we do end up on channel 33, and sometimes in a late-night slot, past midnight, on TV3. We would like to promote these offerings, yes. In fact, with Catalunya Ràdio we have made La Renaixença, which is a first joint venture that is working for us. We hope we can expand this path, which is delicate but promising.

And Esport3? In 2022 they told me: “We have asked them for a project”. Four years have passed and it is essentially the same channel as then.

— Indeed, but with a very big difference: in these four years we have achieved sports rights that we did not expect in any way! Women's football from Champions and League, the Copa del Rey, basketball... All this has gone in part to TV3 and in the current leadership of the channel, sport has had an important part. Esport3 focuses more on grassroots sports, but without giving up on elite sports.

“TV3 has been a political instrument and we found ourselves in the middle of it,” he reflected then. Is 2026 no longer a political instrument?

— They try to make it a political instrument, but we are not a political instrument. What I would like here is to ask all political parties to respect the independence of TV3. We fill our mouths with the BBC, but if we do not respect the independence of TV3, we will die. The political class must understand that we must be a non-instrumentalized medium.

And do they understand it?

— Well, it's a bit difficult for us, but we're on it.

Do they understand more than before or less?

— Let's see, we come from an era where we reflected society, at a time when society was heading in a certain direction. They're understanding it, let's say. As director, I was voted in by the three parties that form part of the Governing Council. Obviously, there are reservations and everyone does the thing of “What's in it for me”. But we cannot mirror ourselves on the BBC and then be someone's beach bar television.

At the beginning of the term, he assured that only 10% of the digital transformation path had been completed. And that it would have to be completed in two years. Almost four have passed: at what percentage are we?

— I would say we are already comfortably between 50% or 60%. There are still usability things missing, for example. One thing that happens is that technology advances so quickly that it has immediately surpassed you. And we have to consolidate all types of offers, such as the youth offer, one that we do more on OTT and the other more on EVA. Or consolidate the children's offer better. Or external production, which I think we have gotten very right lately, making a lot of fiction.

How should EVA evolve?

— All people who have something to contribute culturally to the Catalan audiovisual landscape for young people should be able to appear on EVA. This means trial and error: there are products that have turned out very well for us and others very badly. We believe it should be the breeding ground for audiovisual, too. Including fiction: now we make small fictions, which is where we want to discover talent.

Are there plans to bring EVA closer to IcatFM?

— Everything is possible in this life, right? They serve a similar function. For now, they are separate paths, but we will explore everything we can prepare on this path. In the end, we have the country we have and we can't afford to make 50 channels either.

Are we talking about total hybridization?

— I don't know, but we will advance whatever we can. I wouldn't rule it out, but I couldn't assure it either.

A few weeks ago I interviewed Laura Grau and she explained to me that the influencers who have become famous in Spanish, like Laura Escanes or Dulceida, have big-budget programs, while those who have worked hard for Catalan are relegated to niche programs or EVA.

— It's a mantra. I don't see the incompatibility between potential influencers who speak Catalan and others who are Catalan and have three million followers on Instagram. Getting Laura Escanes to create content in Catalan for our country is good. What we have to try is for someone who creates their content in Catalan to have, perhaps not three million followers, due to demographics, but half a million.

And what if it's a fish biting its own tail? Perhaps it doesn't have half a million followers because it hasn't been given the opportunity to grow by doing a prime time.

— It's just that for a prime time... we give it to people who have already grown up. And there are in Catalonia, eh? Peyu can be seen as an influencer, for example. Seriously, I think it's a false debate. One thing doesn't exclude the other.

If you now made me a patron and gave me an extra 10 million in budget, what would I spend it on?

— Looking for big-format entertainment. We need it. And looking for value products too. And for children. With this, we'll soon have it spent! And I don't know if the 10 million are also for the platform, but that's a place where we have to get it right. At first, we were a bit hesitant and perhaps we should make fewer bets, but safer ones. I prefer three The big date over eight entertainment programs that lead nowhere. You see that with 10 million we do little: give me 20! (Laughs)

Home, if it brings back the late-show to the lineup, let's talk.

— I would love to do a late. We've discussed this a lot with the people at Spanish Television: to do it you have to invest a lot of resources and it's a slot that gives you prestige but quantitatively modest audience.

But then, through networks, it radiates. It fixes position and values. It creates its own imaginary and language.

— Yes, but notice that La Revuelta doesn't start at 12 at night, but at 10, for profitability.

And they cost 14 million. The Free Zone should not have exceeded 2.

— Well, it was a mixed production, where we put in resources, so it's hard to compare directly. But I note that more and more channels are stopping investing in programming from midnight onwards.

The ordinary four-year term ends for him on September 1st but he can renew it for two more years. A few months ago, when another media outlet asked him if he would continue, he said he didn't know yet if you wanted it, and if the Council wanted it. Do you know now?

— Well, the Council has not told me anything and has up to fifteen days before to send me a burofax. What I do know is that I want to stay. It is not my intention to be there twenty years, but in the immediate future yes.

What is the best and worst about being the director of TV3?

— Being the director of TV3 is a pleasure and an honor. The worst part is having to fight for this independence. I would like to be renewed or not based on professional successes or failures, not on political matters.

What percentage of time do you spend putting out fires?

— Perhaps 15%, 20%. Here, let's not fool ourselves, the head of news gets the most. But it depends on what fires we're talking about.

Of all kinds.

— Ugh, well if we count professionals, politicians, among those from home, those from outside... maybe 50%.

He is a director with a board with members appointed by Esquerra, the PSC, and Junts, three parties that defend different national models. Is this a nightmare because contradictory messages arrive, or a blessing because, while they are busy with each other, one can navigate in between?

— (River).

Understood, I consider myself answered.

— No, no. Let's see. The advantage we have is that they certainly represent different models, but it is a respectful Council of Government. When I ask that we believe in the independence of the house, I am not talking about the current council, which they are indeed respectful of.

Have you lived through stages where this didn't happen?

— I haven't experienced it directly, because until you're a director, you don't encounter it either. I'm sure it has happened, because I've seen how it went. The council members understand each other. One day they all get angry, but they are always open to explanations.

The danger of this consensus is the equalization downwards. To settle for the least common multiple.

— No, no. This is what can never be allowed. Being everyone's television means that now this is happening and now this other different thing is happening. It doesn't mean we should be bland, because if we fall into that, we will be completely irrelevant. Nothing about going with a low profile.

What work does a TV3 director do that the general public doesn't suspect?

— I have many things in mind, but I can't say them! No, seriously, things people wouldn't suspect... I'd say it's a job that is very idealized. The idea that everyone has a Barça coach and a TV3 director. It's cool to be a TV3 director, they tell you, but you have to work very hard. We have a complicated house, because it's a public company. It's not the same as a private company where you can say "I'm in charge here". You have to build consensus with everyone. If the staff doesn't respect you, you're in trouble. And for them to respect you, you have to earn it.