Oriol López: "The PSC thought they could get ERC to go through the linker and we haven't gone through."

BarcelonaOriol López (Mollet del Vallès, 1978) is the deputy general secretary of ERC and one of the party's negotiators in the talks with the Government that, for the moment, have led to the withdrawal of a budget that was already being processed, for the first time.

What went wrong?

— That for the first time since we invested Salvador Illa, one of the two parties has acted unilaterally, thinking what could be done to make the other party step aside. And ERC has not stepped aside.

Have relationships worn out?

— Relations continue, but I think after a crisis like this, both sides know each other better. I think the PSC now knows better who ERC is.

Have they agreed to buy time?

— Esquerra Republicana wants budgets, here, in the State, in Europe and in the town halls. What happens is that the PSC must understand that in order for there to be any, national resignation must be set aside and ambition must be embraced.

Why three days ago Catalonia could not have budgets if there was no explicit commitment to have the IRPF, and now this red line is not necessary to start negotiating them?

— Once they have been withdrawn, it is now up to this government to create new ones and agree on them. We are not ruling out IRPF, we want it. We will have to see what the PSC wants. And this is the big question. The PSC must prioritize the country over the interests of the PSOE.

Is there any commitment from the PSC or the PSOE for this to be unblocked?

— We'll see about that. If the PSC is not capable of having enough ambition to make the PSOE fulfill the agreements, it will have to put other issues on the table, other conditions that are equal to or better than the IRPF.

Whose?

— New things that give us more sovereignty, such as personal income tax, or the infrastructures that are practically destroyed in this country.

Catalonia doesn't have a budget today because there are elections in Andalusia?

— We are an independentist party, a Catalan party, our reference is Barcelona, it is Catalonia and, therefore, we are different.

If Minister Montero were not a candidate in Andalusia, do you think a gesture from the Spanish government would have arrived?

— Surely Montero and no Spanish minister likes to cede power, in this case to Catalonia. Surely Pedro Sánchez has not been up to par, and surely, as I said before, the PSC has lacked ambition.

Do you think ERC emerges strengthened from the negotiation outcome?

— The most important thing is that the citizens of this country live well and have the services they need. It is irrelevant whether this is a victory for Esquerra. In any case, I believe it is an opportunity for the government of this country to understand that it needs much more national ambition if it wants to continue governing.

At some point, have you thought that the situation would lead to an election?

— We already have experience in calling early elections and it did not go well for us. We have always thought that the PSC did not want to hold elections and, therefore, put the current majority at risk. It was a significant recklessness. In any case, ERC is never afraid of elections, but we believe that Salvador Illa is not suited for them.

Do you think the PSC and the PSOE are fulfilling the investiture pacts?

— Regarding Rodalies, the FLA, financing and, above all, the investment consortium, we believe they are on the right track. These are things that take time, but they will materialize.

Do you see any resignations from ERC?

— Paper sometimes holds everything. When you have to make a deal with the Spanish state, you usually see that to agree, rather than renunciations, you have to adapt to realities. We have the strength we have, we want to have much more, and we believe we will have much more, and we believe there are important bases for gaining sovereignty.

The PSOE also doesn't have budgets in the State. Are they also offering to agree to them?

— He has one year and a little more of legislature left, and if one day he puts a budget on the table, we will look at it. But there, Sánchez needs seven or eight parties.

I end up asking him about Gabriel Rufián and the event he will hold with Irene Montero in Barcelona.

— ERC is not afraid of any debate, and neither are the interns. Gabriel Rufián's concerns are also ERC's concerns. If he wishes and if the militants approve it, which would surely be the case, he will be ERC's candidate for Congress. We may have a lot of sympathy for the Spanish left, but it is not our mission to work for them to reach an agreement.