Sor Lucía Caram: "People will not leave Rosalía's concerts to fill churches"

BarcelonaIt will soon be 40 years since the nun Lucía Caram Padilla (Tucumán, Argentina, 1966) arrived in Catalonia. Due to her commitment to the most disadvantaged and her public interventions, she is one of the most listened-to voices in the Catalan Church. On Tuesday, Pope Leo XIV will bless in Barcelona the material and volunteers who, led by Sister Lucía Caram, will leave that same night for Ukraine. It is her 44th expedition since the war began. In this conversation, Lucía Caram talks about the Pope's visit, but also about Rosalía and Sílvia Orriols.

Catalan has become the main topic of Pope Leo XIV's visit. How did you learn Catalan?

— There was a priest from León, who was the confessor of the monastery, who told me: “Look, Lucía, if you go to Catalonia I will ask you for two things: believe in God more than ever, but above all learn Catalan”. I arrived at the convent and Sister Pilar, who was from Logroño, gave me some red cassettes and some envelopes, which were the Digui Digui course.

You know that there are many Argentinians in Catalonia who do not speak Catalan. Whose responsibility do you think this is?

— I believe that the culprits in many issues are you, that when we start to speak and you realize we come from outside you change language. And what would be desirable would be that you invite us to speak it more. If you are in a country you have to learn the language. It is learning the culture and it is showing that you love the place where you are.

You, who have a direct line to the Pope, have you had the chance to tell him that, when he comes to Catalonia, he should speak in Catalan, and not in a folkloric or testimonial way?

— I have been twice with Pope Leo, two meetings of one hour. And the second time, when I already knew he was coming, I spoke to him about Catalonia, about how important Catalan was. He is a person who listens a lot, very intelligent, and at no time did I doubt that he would speak in Catalan. I believe he will speak it much more than we imagine. These days there has been a lot of commotion. It is known to me that, especially in the liturgy... More than by the organizers here, who have pressured, it is the responsibility of the Vatican's liturgy official. Sometimes liturgists are very closed-minded.

But the blessing of the Jesus tower, the culminating moment of the visit, was all in Spanish.

— For me it is more significant that the Pope visits Montserrat. He could have not gone. Montserrat is the heart that makes Catalonia beat. The Sagrada Familia is a world reference, but for Catalans it is Montserrat.

Is it not important to you that I speak in Catalan at the time of the blessing of the tower of Jesus?

— For me it is more important that he speaks in the homily, when he addresses us. At the blessing I think it would be an effort that would cost nothing. He listens, lets them organize his agenda, but he decided to go to prison [Brians 2], which was not planned, and also to El Raval. He wanted to go and meet the volunteers who work with the poorest. I think that when he comes to Catalonia, he will not let them score a goal and that people will be left with the fact that he did not speak Catalan. This pope has a very well-furnished head, and prepare yourselves, because I believe we will be very happy. He will speak the language we all speak and will give answers to questions we ask ourselves. He will deal with the problems we have, starting with the regularization of immigration.

During the two days the Pope is in Catalonia, where will we see Sister Lucía Caram?

— Tuesday at seven in the evening, before entering the Olympic Stadium of Montjuïc, the Pope will bless the humanitarian corridor that we are taking to Ukraine. He will meet with us, with a group of 60 volunteers, who are driving 60 ambulances to Ukraine, with the people who helped me buy them, the volunteers, and the community of nuns and lay people. We will be about a hundred people. And then we will leave for Ukraine, we will not stay.

So, you won't be in Catalonia during the Pope's visit?

— I won't be there, no. The Pope is arriving and I'm leaving.

Will the Pope's visit to Catalonia bring more tourists to the Sagrada Família or more faithful to the churches?

— I would like it to serve so that, for a moment, we are able to not have so much religion to hate each other and to confront each other. His message is that in a religion, if there is no commitment, a social commitment, we are not credible believers. The Sagrada Familia, when the works are finished, can be the golden goose to maintain social works. Why? Because Gaudí died poor. His work should serve to provide solutions to the poverty problems we have. Where our heart is, there we must put our treasure. If we truly have our heart where the Gospels say, with the poorest, we must put the money there. If we don't put it there, we will not be credible and we will have empty churches, because we will be selling a message that is not that of the Gospels.

We are in a non-confessional state. Do you think, as is said, we are dedicating too many resources and attention to the Pope's visit?

— Amidst so much confusion, so much corruption, an absolute lack of leadership, I believe it is important that when a person with moral authority arrives, whom people listen to and who does not compromise with anyone, they receive the welcome they deserve. And there must be a security deployment. We are at a terror alert level 4. Islam has already made a threat of an attack, just like with the Football World Cup. Therefore, I think we must put all resources into guaranteeing everyone's safety. Furthermore, for a few days the world will be watching us, the focus will be on us here.

We're already a bit wary of the world looking at us...

— Let them look at us for what we have, because we have the Sagrada Família, because we have Montserrat. Let them look at us because we know how to put ourselves at the service of the poorest, because we know how to welcome people, because the Church is really for everyone and we do not condemn anyone.

What kind of relationship did you have with Pope Francis?

— To me, Francesc was my father. I feel orphaned and every day I publish things of his. Pope Leo encouraged me to continue doing so. I visited Francesc more than 30 times at the Vatican, I keep 70 letters from him, he left me messages on the answering machine, we had a lot of complicity. And one day, when the war in Ukraine began, he told me: “Look, I don’t trust anyone. I want you to be my eyes in Ukraine, I want to know what is happening to the children there”.

How many trips have you made to Ukraine?

— This is number 44. I am in love with Ukraine. When Pope Francis died, they called me from Rome: he left me his inheritance to buy things for Ukraine. I bought more than 15 ambulances with Pope Francis's money.

I didn't know!

— Yes, yes. He gave part of it to Cardinal Krajewski, who was the almoner, and he gave the other part to me. I was very surprised. But the legacy that Pope Francis has left me is that we must be with those who suffer the most. Therefore, I always say that I will go to Ukraine as long as I have the strength and resources. For now, I have strength, and I ask everyone for resources.

As my mother would say: the convent won't fall on your head, no!

— No, I discovered that my cloister is the world. Some time ago, the general of the Dominicans sent a document to the community saying that he was imposing a formal precept on me, the most serious one they can give you, which prohibited me from going to the media. And Pope Francis told me: “Don’t pay attention to him, if you have been given a tongue it is to speak”.

In Manresa, you have been doing a lot of work for a long time with people who have fewer resources, who are often those who have come from outside.

— In Manresa we began to work on interreligious dialogue. We supported Muslims having a place for their mosque. They set fire to the convent wall. There have been graffiti on the Food Bank because they said we were creating a pull effect. I went to the center of Manresa and found elderly women who insulted me and told me why I was bringing Moors to the city. I haven't brought anyone. What we are trying to do is welcome everyone, prevent social fracture, and help people out of this situation. We have many people from the country now, who are working poor. People who earn 1,200-1,300 euros and cannot make ends meet.

Have you had a chance to speak with Sílvia Orriols?

— I don't have the taste or the desire for it. His speech of so much humiliation and confrontation... I think we have to dialogue and we have to listen to everyone. But when the speech shows such great contempt for people's lives, it hurts me. And I can't stand it. What worries me is that many young people are buying into this discourse.

In Catalonia, at least one and a half million people have arrived in recent years, and this has an impact on the population. Denying this is also denying reality.

— Companies need people. Let's look at who takes care of our elderly. But let's go to the hospitals and see who the anesthesiologists, the doctors are. Who is in construction. We don't have electricians or mechanics. To activate the economy, we don't need a submerged economy, but rather to regularize the situation of these people so that they can work and so that they are not exploited.

Do you think that because of the nun's habit they listen to you more?

— There are many people who wear habits and no one listens to them. Not me either. I believe that they don't respect me for my habit, but for my transparency. Every day I can go to sleep peacefully because I haven't kept absolutely anything for myself and because I can put everything I receive at the service of the people. True Catalans are supportive and cohesive people, who are not exclusive, but hospitable. That's why Aliança Catalana bothers me so much. Catalan DNA is public-private collaboration, integration, welcome, hospitality, and respect for the person. And when there is no respect for the person, this is not Catalonia, this is not from this country. It's just that I'm from outside and I've lived it. No one has given me a bad look, neither for being a nun, at a time when Catalonia was the most secularized it had ever been, nor for being Argentinian.

You said that Catalonia was more secularized before. Do you think there are more believers now than before?

— No, but many say there is an awakening. When Rosalía came, everyone thought spirituality had returned and that religion, I don't know what. Let's see, Rosalía retired for a season, studied the mystics and wrote some impressive songs.

I didn't understand if you were speaking well or badly of Rosalía.

— I speak very highly of the work she has done, of the songs she has made. She has undergone a process of introspection, she has undergone a process of spirituality...

But?

— But it is not a religious process. This search has been able to transmit it to young people, and young people, who today are very lacking in meaning, have found something that resonated with them. She has embarked on a path of spirituality, she has created a brutal show, with lyrics that are really worth reading, inspired by mystics, by people who have had a spiritual experience, but people will not leave Rosalía's concerts to fill churches. Young people, and not so young people, who live a spirituality, must understand that without commitment it is a lie.