Pau Morales: "The amnesty is a stress test for Spanish democracy"

BarcelonaAlthough the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) has validated the amnesty, there are still courts that refuse to apply it. From ERC, the deputy general secretary for organization, finances, and anti-repression, Pau Morales (Vilassar de Mar, 1944) explains the roadmap of his party to continue pressuring.

Did you expect, as the Court of Auditors has done by postponing the decision, that there would be more obstacles to the amnesty after what European justice has decided?

— This procedure is completely inappropriate and one of the first responses is to file an appeal against it. The amnesty should be immediate. The two European rulings are very forceful and position amnesty as a recognized tool to address conflicts that should never have left politics.

Is there room for courts to not apply it?

— Now what is needed is for Spanish democracy to be capable of enforcing the laws approved by its Parliament. And, therefore, the issue is no longer just about the repressed, but also, above all, about a stress test for Spanish democracy.

What is the motivation of judges who do not apply it?

— The amnesty law is a political victory, not only for independence, but also for democracy. There are already hundreds of people who have seen their cases extinguished, but we also know that there are resistances from State institutions, at least from a part of the judiciary, which, starting from a conservative and certainly reactionary vision, try to put all the obstacles they can in the way. We will have to overcome them one by one.

The Constitutional Court (TC) will not meet until September.

— From the moment that sedition was removed from the Penal Code, the cases that concern us should have already been extinguished. But we have come a long way against this repressive will of the Spanish state. We, in fact, are eager, above all, to be able to talk about housing, language, the right to self-determination, the sovereignty of Catalonia, the economy... We have followed a solid strategy of leaving no one behind.

What can they do to pressure the courts?

— For us, amnesty is just a starting point. Political victory must serve to move to the next step. The margin for the courts is increasingly reduced. If the Constitutional Court follows the same line as the Court of Justice of the European Union, the rest of the courts will have no choice but to make amnesty effective.

Before the amnesty, pardons were obtained, although they were not total and, for this reason, Oriol Junqueras and other leaders of the Process remain disqualified.

— We believe that Oriol Junqueras should be able to run in elections, that it makes no sense for neither him nor the group of repressed individuals to be unable to do their jobs, such as being university professors and teaching classes. So far, a strategy has been followed that has been the most solid possible to avoid missteps and that, afterwards, would lead us to take steps backward.

Without the PSOE in Moncloa, would it be possible for them to continue advancing?

— What we at ERC are convinced of is that, without ERC as a decisive force, none of these steps would have happened. The necessary, essential condition is that the sovereigntist forces, and, in particular, ERC, be as strong and decisive as they can be in the Congress of Deputies and the Senate.

With all the corruption cases appearing around the PSOE, does ERC continue to defend that the legislature has a future?

— It has scope if it makes sense for the interests of the Catalans. We do not base agreements with the PSOE on the trust that it is uncorrupted, but on the extent to which we can achieve more progress, sovereignty and benefits for the Catalans.

Is PSOE corruption worth less than PP corruption?

— No, corruption is the same. They convicted the PP for illegal financing, and we supported a motion of no confidence. For us, corruption is the same no matter where it comes from, even if it comes from within our own ranks. One must be absolutely firm and demanding, as we have always been in ERC. From here, it is also true that, in cases affecting the PSOE, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish to what extent there is actually corruption and to what extent they also suffer this lawfare that we independentists suffered firsthand. And to the extent that there is a component of political siege by the most reactionary sectors of the State, they will also have our solidarity.

Is José Luis Ábalos given his solidarity? Or José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero?

— We will have to see how the cases are resolved. Maximum demand against corruption and, at the same time, all our democratic strength to achieve the advances and goals that may be useful and beneficial for Catalans. The PSOE has duties to do within its own ranks. From here, anything that goes further and, therefore, is a political siege by the extreme right, they will not find us paving the way back to Moncloa for the kings of corruption.

It has been eight years since Pedro Sánchez has been in government, and the State's underinvestment in Catalonia remains the same.

— These data confirm one of the failures of the Illa government because right now the Socialist Party is in the Generalitat and in Moncloa, and therefore, we understand that it is part of their challenges to ensure that Catalonia is not underfunded or that the execution of promised investments is fulfilled. From here we are not just here to complain, but also to rebel against injustices, and Catalonia urgently needs investment in infrastructure. One of these solutions was the Investment Consortium.

What pressure route does ERC have?

— Pedro Sánchez has not approved any budget this legislature.

Salvador Illa, yes.

— Starting from a series of conditions, among which there was also that of demanding certain investments in Catalonia, such as the first phases of the orbital train. We are for raising again any proposal that allows resolving these issues, because it is the most important.

Aliança Catalana is rising in the polls. Do you add your votes to those of ERC, Junts, and the CUP as independentists?

— If I were the Spanish state and I imagined how the independence movement could be shattered and any possibility that Catalonia, as a cohesive country, could democratically advance towards its independence could be ended, what would occur to me would not be very different from what Aliança Catalana means today.