Joan Tardà: "In 2028, Oriol Junqueras would like to be president of Catalonia and Salvador Illa vice-president"

BarcelonaJoan Tardà is a former Member of Parliament in the Congress and has recently published A Republican Chronicle from Madrid (Viena Edicions), in which he explains his parliamentary tenure in the Spanish capital for fifteen years.

Let's start with the end of the book, where he talks about the left-wing front he has long advocated. Do you see it as feasible now?

— It would be interesting if a ballot paper brought together all the self-determinationist, independence-minded, and sovereignist forces without renouncing their party logos, including representatives from social movements. The only way to reverse this disaffection is to do what people no longer expect the left to do: unite. If we don't do it now, when will we? When Catalan identity and the working classes begin to suffer eight years of Spanish right-wing government?

Why do you think the party leaders are so reluctant to talk about it, starting with ERC?

— Because they usually have difficulty leaving their comfort zones. Why not? Why isn't it worth it demographically? Everyone will have to explain why it is or why it isn't.

Those who are not in favor argue that each party has its own space and they recall Junts pel Sí.

— It is not comparable for two reasons. One, because Junts pel Sí was an interclassist pact. Later it was shown that those of us who said it was a bad deal were right, but we accepted it because, otherwise, Artur Mas would not have moved forward. And because it was about checkmating the State by proclaiming the Catalan Republic, which is why it was necessary to gather maximum forces, assuming the thesis defended was plausible. Now it's not about that. It's about resisting, about taking the blow.

As Agora, the internal current of ERC that you lead: when and how do you plan to open this debate?

— We will debate with all the party bases. And the leadership will make a proposal on how the debate will be organized. We are working so that Junqueras will be president of Catalonia in 2028 and preside over a left-wing government, provided that the members of Esquerra make him the candidate.

Should Gabriel Rufián be the candidate for this left-wing front? In the book, you say he is "the great asset of the republican independence movement of the president and certainly of the future."

— Yes, I say that and that Oriol Junqueras not only deserves to be the candidate, but he must be. I am very proud of Rufián because never before has an ERC affiliate, that is, an independentist, a republican, a left-winger, and the son of a working-class family, been so popular in Catalonia and outside Catalonia. He represents the will of republicanism to move away from this concept of Catalan tribe and build what we call the republican nation.

But should Rufián lead the coalition in the State?

— I value Rufián's ability to shake up the Spanish left-wing scene, because it makes no sense to lose votes outside of Catalonia. Rufián's proposal has jolted them a bit.

Has he been criticized for a kind of challenge to ERC?

— I don't perceive it as a power struggle. I have the feeling that Rufián has managed to place an enormous elephant in this left-wing room, which, even if it wanted to, couldn't get out because the room is small.

In the book, you explain several times that you are in favor of always extending a hand to the PSC. Should ERC approve the budgets?

— Esquerra should demand that the PSOE comply and should do the groundwork and help it to comply. The correct dialectic is the one established between confrontation and collaboration. The PSOE must comply, and it would be good for Esquerra to also help it to comply.

In what sense?

— That it lower the principle of reality a bit. Are budgets necessary? I think so, and even more so given the current situation after the war. But socialism must comply, because otherwise, trust deteriorates. I campaigned for a 'yes' to President Illa's investiture, and the previous leadership, with Marta Rovira, did a very good negotiation.

Would you be in favor of Esquerra joining the Government?

— If we reach 2028 and both sides make a positive assessment, who knows if there might not be a government pact, or a coalition government. I would like Oriol Junqueras to be president of Catalonia and Salvador Illa vice-president. I would like this left-wing front, if it didn't win, at least to have such a firm result that there would be a coalition government with Illa as president, but with vice-presidents from the CUP, Esquerra, Comuns, who would prevent the PSC from leaning towards Spanish nationalism.

Let's talk about Junts for a moment. In the book, you refer to the moment of Puigdemont's non-investiture. Was that a turning point in the Junts-Esquerra relationship?

— The deterioration of Junts has been very unpatriotic. The beginning of the post-process caught them with the refoundation of a new party, and they had two paths: to refound themselves by accepting the principle of reality, which is that we did not reach the summit; and the other, to accept it and prioritize the formation of the new party. They chose the quick path, which was to parasitize Esquerra, and to do so, they had to denigrate it. This myth of the traitor, the betrayal that some of us have suffered enough, was created, associating ERC with surrender to the extreme that the work has had to be done alone.

One of the things Junts criticized is that Gabriel Rufián speaks in Spanish in Congress now that Catalan can be spoken.

— Doing independence in Spanish is the great victory. What happens is that there is a sector of the independence movement that experiences the current moment with bitterness, as a frustration. We must not fall into the visceralities of a nationalist gut. Otherwise, the alternative is the trench. Alliance is trench warfare. Now we must act in the open field, even if it means receiving friendly fire, that is, from Junts.

In 2011, you were hesitant about Oriol Junqueras presiding over ERC. However, at the congress two years ago, you stood by his candidacy.

— Yes, his intellectual capacity, the dignity with which he has faced repression... I think he deserves an opportunity. However, the leaders of 2017 can only become full leaders of the future if they know how to reinvent themselves. That is, to adopt a more disruptive discourse, and I believe that today, opting for the unity of the left is a way to accumulate all the capital of legitimacy you have through your popularity, your background, your dignity.

Regarding the poster scandal, in the book you explain that the final report of the Council of Guarantees is still pending presentation to the National Council.

— Based on the report of the truth commission and the compliance report, the Council of Guarantees must issue the report. I requested it, and they told me it was about to be issued.

At the time, you received criticism about the report made by the truth commission.

— We were very rigorous, we worked hard for two months. Some party colleagues did not want to appear, and I highlighted that because I thought it was only fair. We only set three conditions for the leadership's proposal: that it be a plural commission; that we set a time limit, and that the conclusions be read before the plenary session of the national congress. Now responsibilities must be clarified or people must be compensated.