Mario Gas: "Inside me I think I could have done more, as a father, lover, partner, director, actor and citizen"

BarcelonaMario Gas (Montevideo, 1947) is one of the great names of the Catalan scene. Since his debut – he counts at 18 years old, with the direction of Asalto nocturno (1965), although he had been acting since he was eight – he must have directed nearly 150 productions. He has been an actor, director, voice actor, set designer, lighting designer, and creator of mythical shows, such as Sweeney Todd and The Beauty Queen of Leenane. At almost 80 years old, he continues to be combative and fighting from the theatre. Until June 28th he is performing the autobiographical cabaret at La FàbricaLa lluna és blanca, muy blanca… and has just published a memoir, Conversaciones con Mario Gas (Fundamentos), written by Santi Fondevila and Teresa Petit. With him, we review fifty years of our theatre.

La lluna és blanca, muy blanca…

— It is a verse from a romance from La tabernera del puerto by Pablo Solozábal that my father premiered in the 40s and sang throughout his professional career. I have put it in Catalan and Spanish because he premiered it in Spanish, and he has a recording from 1943, but shortly before retiring, he also sang it in Catalan. Furthermore, it so happens that I was born in Montevideo when he was singing this light opera.

Does that mean he didn't come down from the stage?

— He came to see me after finishing, I couldn't help it. And since it's a show where I talk to the audience, I sing, I recite, I say a monologue, I comment on things, it seemed to me that it was interesting to pay a small family tribute to my ancestors.

Do you consider that his destiny in theater was inevitable? Because he studied law, but theater kidnapped him at 20 years old...

— I thought not. I have always loved theater very much, I had a great time. I used to tour with my parents and my uncle, Mario Cabré, and I did independent theater. But there came a time when I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, a diplomat, or an architect. But as John Lennon said, "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans." And so it was. I don't believe in the inevitability of destiny, but it's clear that I had many chances. At that time I had a scholarship to go to the United States. I had everything planned, but no: I fell in love, I took two theater directing courses, something as an actor, and I stayed here.

It was an effervescent time: May 68, the Sitges Independent Theatre Festival is born, the first shows with Fabià Puigserver (the mythical Adefesio), he worked at Ràdio Barcelona on weekends, he also embarked on a decade of union struggles, the assembly-based Grec of 76, the Tenorio of Born. How do you remember those 70s? Would you say they shaped his identity?

— I am not at all nostalgic, but I must admit they are historic facts. And I think so, they shaped me, but it also came from my time at university, where I met Carlos Trías, Cristina Fernández Cubas, Gustavo Hernández, Vila-Matas, Cadena... All this intellectual, cinematographic, and theatrical effervescence opened up a very important world for me, of ideas and attitudes towards life; also ideological positioning. And all this was put into practice during late Francoism. We were coming out of a very dark era and society was moving towards a freedom that would later lead to this kind of neoliberal democracy, always besieged by the far-right. Before democracy and institutions were established, in 1976-77, there were many self-managed movements. Independent theaters became professionalized. We wanted to change the production systems, as well as the aesthetics and ethics of the dominant type of theater that was being made. Afterwards, in life, you have to navigate many difficult places, but I think I have been quite faithful to all the ideas we already had. I was quite anarcho-syndicalist.

Do you still have that anarchist spirit?

— I think so, because it responds to a way of being. But God forbid I call myself an anarchist, because one has to be more serious than I am. But the sympathy for ácratas ideas, so often mistreated by the ideologies that have settled in power and counter-power, makes me very happy. I read a great many books on anarchism. And at first they were all together, Marx and Bakunin!

I suppose that the memories of projects like Saló Diana, which was an assembly and had slogans like "Saló Diana, a hat shop at the service of the people", arrive wrapped in nostalgia.

— Not nostalgia, but I really like thinking about those impulses. Consider that we in the assemblies wanted to create a kind of soviet to direct the theaters and establish a decentralized public theater. The administration, which was settling in, was looking for fewer interlocutors and to re-establish hierarchical order. And we have gone as we have gone, with Trump, Milei, technocrats like Elon Musk, and the far-right.

Which are just the opposite.

— Yes, I do think they were movements that generated a spirit that many people carry within. We are now in a moment of low tone. Everything is very structured and everything has been invented for many years. As Jaime Gil de Biedma said: "We of then, are no longer the same, even though we sometimes like a song –he declaims–. And today, today we do not expect the revolution". In that era we expected it.

Those young people from the 70s are the ones who fought and achieved the institutionalization of culture, which leads to what is called "a domesticated bourgeois democracy". Therefore, does it have pros and cons?

— Exactly. Now you set up an assembly and very few people go. At that time, in the assemblies we held until 5 in the morning in the Sala Princesa, there were 500 people. Solidarity has fallen apart. The more separated we are, the more they dominate us, because there is no strength in collective response. I think the country's businesses have done a lot for theater, but, as Pere Planella used to say, in the 70s-80s the plays were chosen by the directors and now they are chosen by public theaters and private companies. There is a difference. With your left hand you make art and with your right hand you make money.

But being professional, can one escape this system?

— If I can, I don't go in there. And if I do go in, it's my way: with my teams, with people who think like me, which is a lot of them.

Let's pick up the thread. 80s.

— I was already doing a lot of theater as an actor and directing operas, and Hermann Bonnín offered me to direct The Threepenny Opera in 1984 at the Teatre Romea, with 45 actors and 10 musicians. The following year I directed Salome with Núria Espert. In 1986, The Round in 1984 at the Romea Theatre, with 45 actors and 10 musicians. The following year I directed

And in the 90s the era of great tours begins, with mythical works such as The Time and the Conways, and the era of the Sondheims arrives.

— Yes, it was a much-cherished project that didn't arrive until 1993 with Golfus de Roma at the Mérida Festival, in 1995 it was Sweeney Todd at the Dramatic Centre at the Poliorama, in 2000 we did Little Night Music at the Grec and at the Novedades, and then Follies to say goodbye to L'Espanyol in 2012.

And the awards for Guys and Dolls and The Beauty Queen of Leenane... What productions have marked it?

— It is a time of maturity, of very strong contact with the public and of recognition. I could name two or three shows that I would reject, but among the others I wouldn't know which to choose. I enjoy myself a lot and I take what I do very seriously. Always, in each show, there are things left to do: you can always search, learn from others, review your aesthetics, your ethical positions... One changes their way of directing a lot, too, right? And now we are in difficult times. There are people who, seven years later, denounce deviant practices. And why don't they denounce them at the beginning? "No, it's just that I'm young...". We have all been young and I have many friends who have not allowed anyone to go beyond a professional relationship.

He says so because in the world of theater, feminism and social transformations have driven changes: the way of directing has changed, cases of salary differences and abuse of power have been uncovered, and this in particular has affected friends of his, like Joan Ollé and Lluís Pasqual.

— I think that when you feel your integrity is attacked, you have to say it immediately. And if you know the people... I have never thought that Joan Ollé is a predator; he may have a criticizable attitude towards women and other things, like many people, and they destroyed his life. Lluís Pasqual, worse, years later they subjected him to intellectual mobbing and now because of the Liceu issue he cannot direct for the 50th anniversary of the Lliure. I don't agree. And I am a feminist, and I do not allow anyone to subject anyone to intellectual or physical mobbing, but I also think that erotic and sexual relationships are between free beings.

But the power and patriarchal structure must be taken into account.

— I think we are in very dangerous maximalisms typical of a puritanical society that lets real conflicts escape when they are present. We must judge talent. And we must never allow anyone to overstep. Confusing things and leaving them for the long term makes me doubt. I must have confidence in the people I have met, who are my friends, whom I have admired, and who, despite knowing their perhaps somewhat improper ways, do not believe the process to which they have been subjected. And I will not be moved from this.

We won't drag it out, but I think time changes the view on things and behaviors considered inappropriate twenty years ago are intolerable today.

— Of course. But can one say "don't talk to me like that, I'm leaving". And in sexual harassment, excuse me, when there is a rape it is very clear. I could be more compromising but I tell you what I think, whether many people agree with me or not.

We're back. Have you tried to explain yourself through theater?

— In theater, it's all questions. I think there are two important themes: the condition of the individual as a finite being and the condition of the individual facing a society that destroys him, or not. The theatrical genre doesn't matter to me, because I like music as much as I am greatly influenced by Brecht. You always try to explain yourself, to share the questions you have about the world, to work for the benefit of those who lose, not to glorify the victors, to experiment ethically and aesthetically, and to try to be understandable to the audience. I explain myself through the titles I've chosen: Ascent and Fall of the City of Mahagonny by Brecht, Homebody/Kabul by Tony Kushner, the Millers, Wajdi Mouawad, English and American social theater... Theater is a collective act and, even though it's an element of pleasure, you have to keep poking. The Trojan Women by Euripides is one of the most contemporary works there is.

Perhaps the world hasn't evolved that much either.

— of Euripides is one of the most contemporary works there is.

And the Zapatero case, also, a brutal blow to the left...

— I am still a zapaterista.

Do you still trust it?

— Yes, I think there is a great world coup that tries to absolutely undermine any center-left idea. And here it is evident that they are going all out. I have read a lot of John le Carré. Why don't we believe in reality what we believe in fiction? It is evident that there is a sector of the judiciary, of public powers, of the media, of big capital and of technocrats who are trying to boycott anything that is not an extreme right-wing state. I have confidence for now. And besides, I think one thing is human errors and another is structured, thought-out things put into play with a lot of time and with many people around. We still don't know who M. Rajoy is.

He has always had one foot in Barcelona and the other in Madrid, one in Catalan and the other in Spanish. How does he feel in each place?

— It is evident that I am Catalan and fundamentally from Barcelona. It is also true that since I was very young I have gone to Madrid, I have worked there, I have had an apartment there for twenty years, I settled there for eight years directing the Spanish Theatre. In Madrid, I am just another Madrileño. And I master both Catalan and Spanish and can switch from one to the other calmly in a conversation. Until I was 36-37 years old, I had a rather "shabby" Catalan, but when I was hired to perform Maria Rosa" by Guimerà with Julieta Serrano, directed by John Strasberg, I underwent a tremendous linguistic immersion and I have been speaking Catalan perfectly for 42-43 years now and I use it with a lot of people. And I know Catalan literature of the 19th and 20th centuries very well, both novels and poetry, and theatre.

Speaking of Barcelona-Madrid. How is it that there he directed a theater, and at the hand of Ruiz Gallardón, and not a Catalan theater?

— You don't have to ask me. I had the Condal with some friends, from '83 to '92, and then nothing has been offered to me. I don't believe in competitions, even though I entered the last call for the Lliure because I was excited about it. Competitions are an excuse. When they called me for El Español, we spent eight months discussing all the clauses I asked for to be able to direct with freedom, and they complied. Gallardón as mayor was a progressive and Gallardón as Minister of Justice was an irresponsible reactionary. Someone called me now for the Nacional, but the moment has passed, it's too big a theater.

He does have a theatrical family, a tribe with whom he tries to work. And his fetish actress is Vicky Peña, who is the mother of his children. I say it like this because one time I wrote that they were married and she scolded me...

— We are married. For a year now. We have taken great care of our independence, but we have also taken great care of our love and everything we have done together: two children, working together, loving each other a lot... and now we are married.

Well done!

— I think we are a sensitive, intelligent couple who have gone through many stages of life, but we have always been very united and have worked a lot together. First, because I consider her an extraordinary actress, from whom I learn a lot. She is a pleasure to direct, although it is not easy, but she has fantastic versatility, stage generosity and power. But there are more regular actresses: Rosa Renom, Rosa Boladeras, Mónica López, Lluïsa Castell, Marta Poveda, Gloria Muñoz, Mercedes Sampietro, and actors too.

He has had two children: Orestes, a name that comes from Greek tragedies, and Miranda, from A Midsummer Night's Dream. How do you think he has been, as a father?

— I have tried to let them see things in me, to let them learn from me. I wanted to be very close to them, although, due to work, much less than I would have liked. I hope the mirror has served them well. They are two extraordinary people. Inside me, in many areas of life, I think I could have done more, not only as a father, but as a lover, husband, partner, director, actor, citizen, as everything. I have done what I could with all the best intentions in the world. That said, I really like looking at my children and seeing what they are like. And the grandchildren too, Tonino and Gala.

In the show, Joan Baptista Humet recites, who sang: "Sometimes I think I'm lucky without a dime and my profession still entertains me". A star of his generation must have done well financially.

— In this profession they always try to pay you as little as possible. And if you get a status, at a certain point they tell you no. You spend many seasons without working and money goes very fast. And maybe one is a bit of a spendthrift, and thinks more about living than accumulating.

For generations, it has experienced years of accelerated growth.

— ". A star of his generation must have done well financially.

When the La Gleva theater opened, Albert de la Torre said he was doing it to recover names that had been unjustly marginalized. Has he felt pushed aside?

— Generationally, it has experienced years of accelerated growth.

Says no to a TNC and comes to La Fàbrica?

— This gentleman maintains with his sweat a space that costs him money and health every day. I put my labor force where I want. It's about being coherent with who hires you.

What is the trick to staying active in your 80s? Keep working intensely. In Madrid, the zarzuela Los gavilanes is revived in January. In Barcelona, at the Beckett, he brings the monologue Mi suicidio, with Fernando Bernués.

— What is the trick to staying active in your 80s? Keep working intensely. In Madrid, in January, the zarzuela