Laia de Nadal: "We must replicate the successful research strategy in the transfer of knowledge"

BarcelonaLaia de Nadal (Barcelona, ​​​​1972) has been president of the Catalan Association of Public Universities (ACUP) since the beginning of the year. She has been rector of Pompeu Fabra University for almost two years. As a professor of medicine and life sciences, she co-directed the Cell Signaling Research Group, affiliated with the Barcelona Biomedical Research Institute.

You have only been president of the Catalan Association of Public Universities for a few weeks, but you have known the university system for years. What grade do you give it?

— It must be a high grade, the result of the years we have been working, not only in universities, but also in Cerca centres and from the Government; although we still have important challenges that need to be addressed. If you ask me for a number, I would give it a B with the aim of reaching an excellent, taking into account the current challenges.

What are the priorities to achieve this excellent?

— One challenge is to adapt to the new environment, in the sense of new technologies. The other is related to administration and regulations: I think we must be more agile and have greater flexibility. And, obviously, the third is to increase the tools, which indirectly also means more resources, but above all the tools to be able to make a good transfer, a good internationalization and to be able to rejuvenate and make a generational change as it should be.

Have you had the opportunity to meet the councillor during these first months in office? What did she tell you?

— We are in constant contact with the councillor and her entire team. I think she is a person who has a very clear discourse and a strategy on the table. The files that we transfer to her are not only for more resources but a strategy to see how these resources are provided.

You were talking about flexibility earlier. In what sense?

— The funding model must take into account the activities carried out by a university; not only teaching, but also research, transfer, good practices in social issues, etc. Therefore, indicators and objectives must be well defined and accountability must be provided, and then, of course, the size of the university must also be taken into account. Flexibility must include items that are not always finalistic and that the university must be allowed to choose how it specializes and where it focuses according to its uniqueness, with the approval of the regional ministry.

Are all the rectors aligned in this distribution of resources?

— I think that all universities are very aligned because we are very clear that the system is diverse and that each university is good at some specific subject. We will have to work towards consensus, but it is much better to have a clear, solid and coherent system that can last for years.

One of the indicators for evaluating a university is the transfer of knowledge. How are we doing in this field in Catalonia?

— I am very optimistic. Knowledge transfer is the third step and until now it was not on the table, but now everyone is clear that if a country wants to be productive, it needs innovation and for the knowledge generated to come out of research centres or universities and connect with society.

Is it necessary to create new figures or new programs to retain talent?

— It is time for knowledge transfer. In the search for and recruitment of talent, we are reaping the fruits of a courageous and constant policy applied over the last 20 years, regardless of political parties. Now we are seeing the results with pioneering research that, of course, must continue to be strengthened and defended with salaries competitive with Europe. In programs such as Icrea or Serra Húnter, it is necessary to improve conditions, to create more positions, to create an academy. We must reproduce the successful research strategy in the transfer of knowledge and in ten years we will reap its fruits. We must also have profiles that understand what knowledge transfer is and that can act as a link between society and the university.

To what extent could the events with the state-run María Zambrano programme have caused damage, as it was cancelled and left hundreds of international researchers in the lurch in Catalonia?

— It has caused harm because the beginning and end of this programme have not been communicated. The objective and the purposes must be made very clear, and this also depends a lot on the university. There are universities that have taken better care of it and have accompanied the departure or have offered them to stay. What hurts is not making the conditions clear and here too the administrations have had part of the responsibility, between them all they have not done it well.

What role do you think private institutions should have within the university?

— There is always talk about whether universities do not transfer their knowledge enough, but what must also be done is to encourage companies to approach universities. There are instruments that are working very well for us, such as industrial doctorates and business chairs that serve to start a long-term relationship, but I think that more incentives are needed on both sides.

So, do you advocate more communication and proximity between these two worlds?

— There has been a mistrust between universities and companies, when the reality is that some do some things well and others do others well. What we call public-private collaboration, which has sometimes been frowned upon, is evident here: neither companies can generate this knowledge nor universities can make this transfer alone and reach the market.

Universities have a teaching staff that will retire en masse in a few years. Are we prepared for the generational change?

— We are prepared because we have realized that it is important. The stabilization programs that have been in place should be valued, but it is necessary to carry out a very specific plan with a generational focus that should serve to bring in the new profiles that are needed. We need to be competitive with the conditions to attract talent while, at the same time, we try to ensure that all the knowledge and experience that people who are going to retire have is not lost. This is where the famous issue of universities having a limit for bringing in new personnel comes in. We must ask for this to be extended and for resources to be given to obtain the new professional profiles.

Private universities, beyond Catalonia, are gaining a lot of strength. Are you worried about this?

— Without falling into simplistic terms, such as saying that private universities are bad and public universities are good, I do believe that Catalonia has preserved its system a lot, it has protected it, and that is good. When I say protect, I do not mean prohibiting the creation of private universities, but rather that they must meet conditions of very high excellence and high quality.

The Government has explained that, due to a state requirement, it intends to merge the subjects of physics and chemistry in high school. Have you been able to talk?

— We have expressed our concern to the Education and Research and Universities Councillors and we are at their disposal for whatever is necessary. What worries us is that there is a reduction in the number of hours in these subjects. In others, such as mathematics, the number of hours has increased and also in technology, and this is positive, but in this case it seems that they want to try to reduce them, and this is what we are discussing.

Do you think that the level of education that students receive at university has worsened?

— My feeling is that the skills they bring to school have changed a bit: they are kids with less memory skills, who have been educated in a different environment, and that is neither good nor bad. They also come with very high skills in the technological field. What needs to be done is support in the areas in which they are less prepared. Now, we can help, but we cannot take responsibility for how students arrive. We cannot expect universities to be able to solve everything. Work must be done in primary and secondary school, and then the university, obviously, must continue along this path.

Women are now the majority in many classrooms, but there are still very few female professors.

— It is a priority issue. The percentage of female professors in Europe is 18%. Therefore, the glass ceiling is a global problem. Now, this is visible thanks to the women who have fought to get to where we are, but we are not going at the speed we should be going. We have 50% women in degrees, 50% in doctorates and almost 40% among professors, but when you get to the professorship level, in the case of UPF, for example, they are 24%. We must visualize the women who are there, I think that giving examples is very important.

Complaints of harassment and abuse of power at the university have also surfaced in a repercussion of Me Too. Are the current reporting channels working?

— It is a fundamental issue in which I believe things need to change, but in which we have also made progress in recent years because the institutions themselves have realised that there needs to be a change and that things that were previously considered normal are no longer so. Universities are improving detection protocols and I think the channels are now much clearer. It is a cultural change in which a large part of the people have jumped on the bandwagon very quickly. Then you have a part, which I think is small, that does not see it. But we have the tools so that, regardless of whether they see it or not, what needs to be done is done.