Carlos Magro: "The university access system is broken, it doesn't work"

BarcelonaCarlos Magro (Madrid, 1969) is president of the Open Education Association. He works as an independent professional in innovation, technology, and educational policies and was responsible for the Scientific Culture program of the Ministry of Education of the Community of Madrid. His latest book is AI and Education. A Relationship with Seams (Trama Editorial). He speaks to ARA at the Poblenou campus of Pompeu Fabra University (UPF), on the occasion of 35 years of teaching at the university.

You are very critical of the current selectivity model. Why?

— We must start from a fact, which is that I have no solutions, I am not at all clear what should be done. What we are clear about is that the university access system is broken, it has not worked for a long time. I don't know if it has ever worked, but let's forget that the increase in university students has been enormous and also their diversity. Before, a certain type of profile entered and now it is much broader, the number of universities we have is much larger and the number of degrees, too; therefore, they are very little comparable.

Why does he say the system is broken?

— For many reasons and it is very complex to solve. First, it has very little meritocracy. When we start looking at who studies what, we continue to see how in certain degrees that require higher cut-off grades, such as health sciences and engineering, profiles of students who come from homes with parents with university studies and high salaries predominate.

What is the result?

— A system that does not place people according to their ability or effort and a university with too many differences related to living conditions, family background, social background.

Do we have a problem with high school differences?

— Yes, because high school programs are not exactly the same in all autonomous communities, average grades are not exactly the same. The PAU (University Entrance Exams) are also different, because fortunately we have a system that recognizes territoriality and, therefore, curricula are different in each region. I think this is very necessary and I do not advocate for the opposite, but all of this makes it impossible to have a single exam.

The other reality is that the cutoff grades are getting higher every day.

— Most double degrees are above 12.5 out of 14. The 12.5 out of 14 makes us lose the reference a bit because it's not out of 10, but a 12.5 out of 14 is almost a 9.5. Having a 9.5 in high school and in the PAU is outrageous. It's a grade where you can't afford a single mistake in any subject. And when I say a mistake, I mean a 7 or a 6. To normalize that to enter a double degree, in many engineering degrees, or in degrees in high-demand areas like Barcelona and Madrid, you have to have more than a 9.5 throughout your academic career is a bit dystopian.

But in recent years, places at universities have increased.

— The system is very tense because, obviously, there is a lack of supply, especially in some degree programs. Here there is a small paradox: the places in public universities, which are the ones that set the cut-off grades, have increased slightly in recent years, but in reality they have increased because the number of degree programs has grown. This has also generated a somewhat perverse effect because by increasing the supply of degree programs and not increasing the total places, in some degree programs what has ended up happening is that the places have been reduced.

Grades have also gone up in high school.

— Yes, a general effect has occurred: since we are in a kind of headlong rush, with ever higher cut-off grades, we all do our best so that our students, those of our institute or those of our region, somehow compete better. Then, in the last five years, for many reasons, a certain inflation of grades has been generated. In the end, what this causes is that you are playing for places in the thousandths, that is, in the third decimal. This, with grades that are stratospheric, is a bit crazy.

Are there other university access models that can serve as a reference for us?

— In other countries, contextual university access systems are being discussed; that is to say, they somehow take into account people's living conditions. In the Spanish case, this is not taken into account at all. In England, it is a big problem, but they have been working on it for a long time. It is a very decentralized country and they have a structure in which universities decide their access system. Now it is the universities that are incorporating these contextualized access systems, which in a way lower the requirements somewhat for certain social groups to achieve diversity in classrooms and to ensure that all people are somewhat represented.

Before he told me he had no solution... but where would he start working?

— Probably many things are needed. Political decisions must be made, which have to do with investment in public university. Strategic decisions must also be made in some careers like medicine, about when to open places and when not, because afterwards there is a bottleneck. And change the grading system.