Francesc Xavier Vila: "The pact was drawn up by consensus, and Junts and the CUP withdrew at the last minute."

The National Pact for Language was approved this Tuesday After four years on the road, with a budget of 255 million for this year, but without the expected political consensus. The Minister of Language Policy, Francesc Xavier Vila, has led it from the beginning, first from the Esquerra government and now from the PSC government. However, everything has been delayed in reaching that consensus, which has not been achieved.

— The pact was ready for approval a long time ago and includes input from all the groups that promoted it, including Junts and the CUP. they have withdrawn at the last minuteWe understand that it has a fully national will.

Do you understand their justifications?

— They are transparent. The CUP believes the pact should reflect a conflict between Catalonia and Spain, and this approach makes it difficult to achieve a cross-cutting approach. This is even more exacerbated in the case of Europe, because it is saying that we will not agree on the defense of Catalan until the governments of all European states unanimously agree that Catalan is an official language of the European institutions.

Has the government grown tired of waiting for Juntos?

— We were on the verge of signing the pact during the previous government, and we waited, and then the elections came. The last conversations, in which we told them we accepted the amendments they proposed, took place before Christmas. When we were explicitly told that we had to wait for other actors to decide what would happen with Catalan, we believed it was worth it for us to decide.

The National Pact was accelerated to combat, for example, the Constitutional Court rulings mandating the use of 25% Spanish in some schools. And now the text doesn't include a response.

— If you don't know what a ruling will be, you can't refute the arguments that haven't yet been put on the table. We can't speculate about the response to something that hasn't happened. The agreement does explicitly state that Catalan is the normal vehicular language of the Catalan education system, which is what the legislation we're all defending states. It also states that changes to the language model will be made by consensus.

I'll ask you differently: What will the government do if the Constitutional Court's ruling overturns the decree-law prohibiting the setting of percentages in education? Is disobedience on the agenda?

— What the government is going to do is read the ruling and respond to protect the model we have here.

Do you already have a planned response?

— Of course, we're not sitting idly by, but we're also trying to improve the education system from every angle. I find it hard to understand how everything hinges on a ruling that doesn't exist.

The agreement makes a blunt assessment of education, stating that the system has failed to implement immersion in all cases and has not provided students with a sufficient level of Catalan. Should immersion be reestablished?

— Many of our budgets must be reconsidered. In the 1980s, we had a certain demographic, with many more Catalan-speaking children than now; we had media outlets with a greater impact; we also had teachers with different training and even different backgrounds than we have now. We must ensure that those who enter the classroom know how to manage linguistic diversity in a language that is often the second or third language of students. And this can be done. We have schools that do it successfully; we must systematize it.

Is 255 million for 2025 enough for what the plan calls for?

— My obligation is to say that we will always need more, but it's substantially more than what I found in 2021, which was 128 million [for the government as a whole]. We have the record budget in the history of language policy, and it's double what we had four years ago. Given the current budget situation, I think the agreement isn't a step forward, it's a good step in the right direction.

Where will they come from, considering that we don't yet know the budget for the Ministry of Language Policy and that there are budgets that have been extended?

— The Ministry of Language Policy defines language policies and coordinates them with each department, and therefore the budgets for each area come from each department. They come from ordinary budgets and any additional appropriations that may exist.

If we look at the largest budget items, after education comes adult language learning. It is expected to incorporate 600,000 new speakers in the next five years; in the last, they will gain 267,600 new connoisseurs and 117,000 frequent speakersHow will the number of experts double and the number of new speakers quadruple?

— Every year, we've gained 50,000 new Catalan speakers, and we want to double that number. And we've had 25,000 new users a year, and we want to increase that number to 100,000. We need to increase investment in the Consortium for Linguistic Normalization so there are no waiting lists to study Catalan, and we need more agents to join us to help people start learning the language. We'll offer more courses, promote online learning, and our main goal will be to enter the workforce.

As?

— People who come to live in Catalonia mostly come to work. Historically, work was a place where newcomers learned Catalan. We need jobs to once again be places that encourage learning and using the language. Worker training must include Catalan. We need companies to understand that it's a competitive advantage for them. The Council for Social Dialogue, which brings together the main unions and employers' associations, has embraced this and will create a working group on promoting the language in the workplace.

It is surprising that the planned investment in this area is only 1.3 million euros.

— There are state and European resources for training, and we want to use them to also dedicate them to the Catalan language. This is one of the basic tasks we want to give to the Council.

The same pact states that there are laws, provisions, and regulations that are not being complied with, but it does not specify how they will be enforced now, if there are no coercive measures or oversight elements.

— Three things need to be done: regulate, engage with the industry, and ensure compliance with regulations. When you talk, you see that businesses often aren't familiar with the regulations. That's why we're running an information and training campaign. in situThis does not prevent us from simultaneously carrying out inspections and imposing sanctions when appropriate.

The pact was supposed to allow for more effective policies.

— Exactly. We created the conditions to be able to evolve the situation within a regulatory framework. It's an agreement to move forward.

Justice and healthcare are two areas with little investment, and where Catalan is in critical condition. In the justice system, there are virtually no citizen complaints. Is it considered lost?

— The basic problem is that there aren't enough Catalan judges, and that Catalan doesn't have a significant influence when it comes to entering the judiciary. This legislation depends on the State, and therefore, it would be very helpful to reach a consensus there. It's a very important issue, and one that requires more work, yes.

Another battle that the pact does not open is whether it is necessary to reform the Constitution.

— This issue has not been raised. The current legal framework provides ample room for growth to improve the situation of the Catalan language. We must take full advantage of the existing regulations.

The pact includes symbolic aspects such as linking language and nation, but specifies that it must be independent of ideological and social options. Should Catalan identity be depoliticized?

— The term "politicize" or "depoliticize" is very ambiguous. Does it mean management of public affairs or partisan conflicts? We'll understand each other better if we think of a society with different political options, say the United States or France, for example. Would anyone think of associating knowing or not knowing English or French with being far-right or far-left? No. We aspire for Catalan to be commonly used by all ideological sectors in Catalonia.

In any case, the fact that speaking Catalan links you to Catalan identity has perhaps not been stated so clearly from the positions of the PSC, which had defended bilingualism.

— There are two things. One is that everyone recognizes that Catalan is strongly linked to Catalan identity. Do we really believe that there can be integration within Catalan identity without any kind of contact with the Catalan language?

Another symbolic aspect is achieving official status for Catalan in Europe. How will you pressure the Generalitat (Catalan government) to ensure a positive vote on May 27?

— Regardless of what the Catalan government does, the Spanish government has its own geometries and knows that achieving official status for Catalan in European institutions is a gamble that benefits it.

Does it feel like a historic day?

I have the feeling that today [Tuesday] is an important day. It shows that we have changed the way we conduct language policy, making it more transversal, more transparent, with a national agreement that we believe can reverse the negative trends in language. Five years ago, language wasn't a topic of public discussion; everything was going well. There has been a growing interest in language because by telling things as they are, without unnecessary alarmism but without unnecessary gofoisms, it's easier for citizens to feel comfortable and represented and want to participate. After all, the fight for language is a civic fight. If we don't truly work together, we won't get ahead. But I think there is a way forward.