José 'Pepe' Mujica: "Humanity needs to work less and have more free time."

Montevideo(Interview published on August 28, 2024 and retrieved on May 13, 2025, day of Pepe Mujica's death)

A decade ago, the world felt a fleeting fascination with José Mujica, the informal president of Uruguay who gave up living in the country's presidential palace to continue living in a small, tin-roofed house with his wife and three-legged dog. Known as Pepe Mujica, the former president has shared countless anecdotes from a life worthy of a movie: he robbed banks as an urban guerrilla, survived fifteen years behind bars as a political prisoner, and helped lead Uruguay's transformation into one of the world's healthiest democracies.

But the 89-year-old Mujica's legacy will be much more than his colorful history and commitment to austerity. He became one of the most influential and important figures in all of Latin America, largely thanks to his outspoken philosophy about the path to a better society and a happier life. Now, as he explains, he is fighting death. In April, he announced that he would undergo radiation therapy for a tumor in his esophagus, and in fact, this Tuesday, the former leader was admitted to a sanatorium due to eating disorders. He was discharged hours later, but his condition remains delicate.

In mid-August, I traveled to the outskirts of Montevideo, the capital of Uruguay, to visit him in his three-room house, filled with books and jars of candied vegetables. Mujica was bundled up in a winter jacket and a wool hat in front of a wood-burning stove. He barely ate. "Think of it like you're talking to a strange old man," he told me as he looked at me closely. Then, with shining eyes, he added: "I no longer fit into today's world."

And so we began.

How is your health?

— I had radiology treatment. According to the doctors, it went well, but I'm devastated.

— [Without being asked, Mujica added that he believed that humanity, as it stands, is doomed.]

Why do you say that?

— We waste a lot of time uselessly. We could live more peacefully. Look at Uruguay. Uruguay has 3.5 million people. It imports 27 million pairs of shoes. We create trash and work in pain. Why? You are free when you escape the law of necessity, when you spend your life doing what you want. If your needs multiply, you spend your life meeting these needs. Humans can create infinite needs. The market dominates us and steals our lives. Humanity must work less, have more free time, and be more grounded. Why so much trash? Why should you change your car? Do you want to change the refrigerator? There is only one life, and it ends. You have to give it meaning. We must fight for happiness, not just wealth.

Do you think humanity can change?

— It could change. However, the market is very powerful and has generated a subliminal culture that dominates our instincts. It's subjective. It's unconscious. It's made us voracious shoppers, and now we live to buy. We live to pay.

It seems that he doesn't have much hope.

— I—biologically—do have it, because I believe in humanity. But when I think about it, I'm pessimistic.

However, his speeches usually have a positive message.

Yes, because life is wonderful. Amb all the highs and lows, I love life. I l'estic perdent perquè es el meu temps per marxar. Who feel we can donate to life? At home, comparing both animals, you have the ability to find a purpose. Or not. If not, the trobes, the market will pay bills for the rest of your life. If you find him, you will have something for which he lives. Those who investigate, those who make music, those who love sports, something that fills your life.

— Because there are cultural remnants of feudalism within the Republic. The red carpet, the bugle players... And the president likes to be flattered. They have a four-story presidential mansion where you have to walk three blocks to get a cup of tea. Useless. They should build a high school.

— I once went to Germany. They welcomed me with a Mercedes Benz, and the door weighed about 3,000 kilos. They put 40 motorcycles in front and 40 in back. You can't imagine how embarrassing I was.

How would you like to be remembered?

— Ah, like what I am… a crazy old man.

And that's all? You've done a lot.

— I only have one thing: the magic of words. Books are man's greatest invention. It's a shame people don't read much. They don't have time.

Nowadays people read a lot on their phones.

Four years ago, I threw it at him. He drove me crazy. All day long, talking nonsense. Now I want to talk to myself. We must learn to talk to the person inside us. It was she who saved my life. Since I was alone for many years, this has stayed with me. When I'm out in the field working with the tractor, I sometimes stop to watch a little bird build its nest. He was born with the program. He's already an architect. No one taught him how to do it. Do you know the baker's bird? They're perfect palettes. I admire nature. I almost have a kind of pantheism.

Back to phones. Are you saying there are too many of them for us?

— It's not the cell phones' fault. It's us who aren't up to date with technology; we use it disastrously. Now we all walk around with a university in our pocket. It's wonderful. But we don't use it that way. We're advancing more technologically than in values.

Yet, much of life today is lived in the digital world.

Nothing can replace this. [He points to the two of us talking face to face.] This is non-transferable. We don't just speak with words: we communicate with gestures, with our skin. Direct communication is irreplaceable. We're not that robotic. We learned to think, but we're emotional beings first. We think we decide with our heads. But often the head finds the arguments to justify decisions made by the gut. We're not as conscious as it seems. And that's okay. That mechanism is what keeps us alive. It's like the cow that follows the green. If there's green, there's food. It will be difficult to give up who we are.

You had said in the past that you didn't believe in God. What is your vision of God at that point in life?

— Sixty percent of humanity believes in something, and it must be respected. There are unanswered questions. What is the meaning of life? Where do we come from? Where are we going? We cannot resign ourselves to being ants in the infinity of the universe. We need God's hope to want to live.

Do you have some kind of God?

— No. I greatly respect people who believe. It's like a consolation in the face of the idea of death. Because the contradiction of life is that it's a biological program designed for you to fight to live; but from the moment it begins, you're condemned to die.

Biology seems to be an important part of your worldview.

— We're interdependent. We couldn't live without the prokaryotes in our gut. We depend on a number of chili peppers we don't even see. Life is a chain and is still full of mysteries. I hope human life is prolonged, but I'm afraid: there are a lot of crazy people with atomic weapons. Very fanatic. We should build windmills, energy change. And no. We go and spend money on weapons.

— What a beast, huh? What a complicated beast man is: he's both intelligent and stupid.