Daniel Tubau: "Wicked people can be very happy"

Daniel Tubau is a philosopher and writer. Publish Seven ways to achieve happiness according to the Greeks (Ariel), where he invites us to abandon slogans and return to the classics to consider what we might consider a happy life today.

The title may seem self-help-related.

— Initially it should have been said The good devilwhich is how the Greeks defined happiness: eudaimoniaThey understood it as having a good spirit. And I liked to point out that happiness is not a modern idea or an invention of Coca-Cola; the Greeks talked about it and considered it to be the most important thing for human beings.

You talk about seven schools to find happiness.

— Socrates and Plato, the Cynics, Aristotle, the Stoics, Epicurus, the Skeptics, and Democritus.

Let's start with the first ones.

— I group Plato and Aristotle together because, when they speak, it's often hard to tell who's talking. Plato is an escapist; he places happiness in another world, suggesting that we'll only find it in successive reincarnations. For Socrates, happiness is knowledge. Virtue is fundamental, and to be virtuous, one needs knowledge.

It was also important to Aristotle.

— He spoke of developing abilities. He said that knowledge is very important, yes, but he also affirmed that the best life is a contemplative one. And this doesn't mean meditating or staring at a blank wall, but rather observing nature, being curious, and thus developing all the abilities we have in order to achieve a fulfilling life.

And what about being cynical and happy?

— Let's not talk about what we understand as cynicism today. Today we talk about people who lie, but the cynics were the complete opposite. Do you know the story of Diogenes?

Account…

— Alexander the Great approached Diogenes the Cynic and said, "Oh, Diogenes, tell me what you need and I will give it to you. I am Emperor Alexander." And Diogenes replied, "Then move aside a little, you're blocking my sun." So they had the audacity to speak their minds. They walked naked through the streets, they made love, they had no social prejudices about things. Today it seems exaggerated, but they greatly influenced the Stoics.

Because?

— Apparently, when the city of Priene was burning and everyone was running around trying to save things, there was a Cynic with nothing. They asked him, "Why are you carrying nothing?" And he replied, "I have everything I own with me." This saying is attributed to the Cynics and already reflects the idea of not depending on external factors, which the Stoics later adopted.

They're in fashion now.

— It's impressive. In 2008, I wrote an article explaining how the Stoics were the great forgotten thinkers. They tell us that we must distinguish between things that depend on us and those that don't. And those things that are external shouldn't worry or concern us. And that's how they were able to endure so much. There's the classic example of Epictetus.

Let's remember that.

— Epictetus was a slave, and his master would apply a torture device to his leg, and he would always warn him that he would break it. And the other man would continue. Until finally he broke his leg. And Epictetus said to him: "I warned you, now you have a lame slave."

We're talking about pleasure.

— Here we have Epicurus and Aristippus, the philosophers of pleasure. Epicurus experienced pain, he felt unwell, so for him, feeling well was already a celebration. That's why he said that the absence of pain was pleasure. He even said, "Look at children and animals, they gravitate towards whatever gives them pleasure." As if that pursuit were something natural.

And Aristip?

— It's almost the only thing it says: that what's truly important, more than happiness, is pleasure. That you should only think about the pleasure of the moment, because it's the only thing that exists.

Which ones are your favorites?

— I really like skeptics, but I think my favorite is Democritus.

How can he be skeptical and happy?

— They reject absolute truth, they are not dogmatic, and they doubt everything. Therefore, they understand that everything can have both supporting and opposing viewpoints, thus arriving at a kind of equilibrium. And it is here, they say, that tranquility arrives and we can be happy: knowing that we cannot become obsessed with not knowing the absolute truth.

Why is Democritus your favorite?

— He's the philosopher of good humor. For him, happiness is a good mood, which means a state of serenity, in which there are occasional joys and pleasures, but in moderation. He was a researcher and developed the "atomic theory of the Universe." And he was a curious man. I like curious people.

All these ideas reach us today.

— That's precisely what I was aiming for with the book. Sometimes we approach the classical Greeks as if they were gurus. But they were argumentative. And that's why they survive, why they interest us, and why they still have things to tell us.

Do you believe that knowledge produces happiness?

— I believe that if your obsession is to know everything, you will be very unhappy, unless you apply a method that works: deceiving yourself.

But isn't being lucid incompatible with being happy?

— The Greeks often associated knowledge with suffering, and García Márquez famously said, "When I was happy and undocumented." The philosopher Martha Nussbaum conducted extensive research with women in India. She explains that years ago, researchers went to villages and asked men and women if they were happy. The men complained much, much more than the women. Ten years later, they returned to the same places, and the women complained even more and reported less happiness. Was their situation worse? Not necessarily. But they had become aware that many of the things that happened to them could be resolved, and they had the right to protest. This awareness led them to see that they weren't as happy as they thought.

Is it possible to be bad and happy?

— It's a paradox, and it's open to debate. Socrates says you can't be happy if you're wicked. I think we sometimes idealize it, but I believe they can be very happy within their own concept of happiness. Aristotle would say it's not a fulfilling life, but all of this is debatable.

Does God have a role in happiness?

— For me, who doesn't believe in any god, none at all. It's important for religious people, because they find a range of answers there. And for me, any reasonable god wouldn't want us to be unhappy in this world just to be happy in the next. That would be sadistic, wouldn't it?

What do you think of books like Happycracywho rightly criticize this pursuit of happiness

— I respect him, and I don't think he should be obsessed with happiness, but I do think it's good to stop and reflect on how we live. And to consider whether it's the way we want to live.

What is happiness?

— I'm afraid to give an answer. But I think it's about feeling fulfilled. Feeling like you're making the most of your life, your mind, and your sensitivity.