José Manuel Fernández de Labastida: "Spain will have to debate how it scientifically prepares for wars"

BarcelonaJosé Manuel Fernández de Labastida directs the State Research Agency (AEI), a key institution for the planning of resources allocated to scientific and technical research in Spain. In addition to having directed departments in high-level advisory bodies such as the European Research Council (ERC), he has also been Secretary-General for Scientific and Technological Policy of the Spanish government and Vice-President for Scientific and Technical Research at the Higher Council for Scientific Research (CSIC).

Is high-level science being done in Spain?

— We do high-level, high-impact science. It could be better, but we have reached levels that, while we are not yet at the forefront of Europe, bring us closer to the highest average. This can be seen in the number of scientific publications generated and the impact measured in bibliometric terms, such as publications that are among the top 10% or 1% most cited. In this regard, Spain has maintained a very reasonable level in a context where many other countries have been declining, mainly due to the impact of research in China. This confirms that the science we do has more value and more impact.

In which fields does research carried out in the State stand out?

— There are a number of fields in which we participate with leading groups, especially in Europe, such as physics and astrophysics; in social sciences, Spain stands out in the European context, along with the United Kingdom and France, and globally behind the United States, in economics. To give an example, in one of the most competitive frameworks we have for obtaining funding, which is the European Research Council, we have researchers who submit research proposals to the most competitive calls, and Spain has approximately between 12% and 15% of grants [grants for frontier research]. Anything above 8% in Spain, when compared to European Union countries, means excelling. We also have leading research in the biomedical field, especially in Catalonia.

What is the state of scientific funding in Spain?

— We are not yet where we would like to be. The most recent data from the National Statistics Institute (INE), from 2024, shows an investment of 1.5% of the gross domestic product (GDP). We would like to be closer to the European average, which is 2.2%, and this is a national objective set out in the reform of the science law in 2022. But we also have to look at where we come from. If we compare with the figures from 2014, investment in both the public and private sectors has practically doubled, reaching around 24 billion euros. If one looks at this evolution in detail, one will see a significant increase from 2018 and 2019, with a greater commitment in the general state budgets, but also in those of the autonomous communities. European New Generation funds have also helped us a lot. However, now our GDP is soaring in growth, and when measured in relative terms, we are still at this 1.5%.

But only public funding investment approaches the European average, private funding investment still lags far behind.

— When analyzing private and public origin investment, we see that 10 years ago the proportions were more or less identical (45%). Now private investment has grown and we are at 50-60%. Little by little, we are approaching the European proportion, which is 70-20%. I believe the change began 10 or 15 years ago. Now there are increasingly more researchers in the public sphere very open to private collaboration, and of course there is a private sector and many technology-based companies knocking on the door, and not only small companies, but also large ones, to do joint research and development. State and regional policies have been very important in this change. Double taxation avoidance agreements [CDI] have played a fundamental role in encouraging companies to invest in innovation.

Is there a common front with the 27 Europeans in this direction?

— Yes. One of the milestones foreseen in the Framework Programme is to encourage more companies to join R&D. Spanish companies compete well alongside the public sector, but many times on their own. Returns from Spain are increasingly significant. Working in Brussels, the French and Italians have very often asked me what the magic is for Spain to achieve so many returns, to attract more and more resources. This is already unstoppable. We have a long way to go, and it must be said that our productive industrial fabric is what it is. We are not Germany or the United Kingdom. A large part of our economy is services.

The Spanish government has positioned itself politically in a certain way in the face of recent wars, but does it believe that the country should be scientifically strengthened in defense?

— One of the things that Europe has on the table is that not only civil research is carried out, but also a large part of the budget is opened to so-called dual research, that is, that which could have a military use. And this is related to the geopolitical situation, in Iran and the United States and with the commitment to have greater strategic autonomy and more defense capability. This has been identified as an important area to also consider in European funding for the 2028-2034 period, which will have an impact on all countries. Also in Spain, which will have to debate how it scientifically prepares for the most classic war, but also for commercial war.

Let's talk about risk culture in science. There are countries with a greater ease to finance projects assuming they can fail, but in Spain one is more conservative. Is there room for change?

— There is still less risk culture in the State, especially among investors, but it is a great European handicap unlike the United States. We are all digesting the Draghi and Letta reports, where these aspects are pointed out as weaknesses of the system and efforts are being made so that the next Framework programme [currently under discussion] serves to help the private sector take more risks from the public sector. There is a proposal to create a competitiveness fund and important steps have been taken with the creation of the European Innovation Council. We must share the risk with public funds, but not solely.

Looking at the regional map of science, are there two Spains operating at different speeds?

— There are different speeds in the Spanish science and innovation system. The first serious regional policy in research and innovation was born in Catalonia 25 years ago, and there is still a commitment that has been maintained for many years. It is by far the community with the highest level of science and the highest level of innovation. All European indicators say so. It is comparable to many regions in Europe because there has been a clear policy. Regional initiative is fundamental to change this map. The communities that have bet the most had a base in a more industrial, more competitive sector. The Basque Country also started about 25 years ago. Madrid's role is more complex because it has a large part that is state-owned, research centers, but it is also a hub for many researchers and innovative companies. What needs to be done? Encourage with state policies, along with regional policies. We know which model works: just look at Catalonia or the Basque Country. And this is happening. In Galicia, there has been significant growth in recent years and the fruits are beginning to be seen.

How is research funding distributed?

— With the science law, the mechanism for planning the use of public funds is very well structured. We have what is called the Spanish Strategy for Science, Technology and Innovation as a key element, which is also synchronized with the Framework Programme and has a duration of 7 years. The Ministry of Science has launched working groups to start discussing the 2028-2034 strategy, which includes programs ranging from human resources and research to projects, strengthening institutions, equipment, and boosting business innovation. The instruments that the State has are the State Research Agency, the Centre for the Development of Industrial Technology (CDTI), and the Carlos III Health Institute for the biosanitary field. It is also very well defined at the European level and, fortunately, they have a budgetary umbrella, which we do not. And then there is the regional level.

But researchers complain about an excess of bureaucracy to access and spend these funds.

— Day-to-day is complicated. They receive European funds, from the state agency, from the communities, and each one has its peculiarities. In Europe, winds of simplification are blowing, as we see in the latest calls for aid from the Framework program, and from the agency we have to get on this bandwagon. We are already making a significant leap to simplify the justification of aid. It is true that we have complicated border conditions that would need to be addressed at some point, but this is already at a more general level, with a subsidy law.

Without funding, public universities are suffocating, but the scientific model here relies heavily on them. And, at the same time, a lack of knowledge transfer is criticized.

— A call must be made to the autonomous communities, because they are responsible for the financing of the university, and this must be more strategic, not based fundamentally on teaching or student criteria, but on research. We have a very important conjunctural opportunity and that is that a generational change will be needed. That is to say, many of the professors will retire in the next 5 or 10 years and the ideal would be to be able to fill these positions with the best researchers from anywhere in the world. It is true that there are communities that have identified this opportunity, such as Catalonia, which is trying to create programs to attract the best possible talent.

What is the problem we have so that so many top researchers we would like do not arrive?

— There is always room for improvement, but I believe important steps are being taken. To import talent, we need to offer attractive conditions, not just in terms of remuneration or social aspects, but attractive contexts for research. That is to say, equipment and infrastructure, the possibility of obtaining resources for research, having postdocs, students... There is a whole context that needs to be nurtured to be attractive. Catalonia has been able to attract many highly talented researchers from all over the world to try to create the conditions.

But are we attractive enough?

— Well, I think so, and I will refer to data. We have the Ramón y Cajal program, which is for those researchers in their mid-career, and we attract many researchers from Europe and other parts of the world. We have another program for Seniors, called Atrae, and we have applications from all over the world and of a very high level. We have just resolved the last call and will provide aid to universities and research centers to hire a total of 37 researchers, 21 of whom are coming from the United States. And no, they are not Spaniards or French people wanting to return: of the 21, 15 have North American nationality. We are attracting people who have done their entire career and were born in the United States. And we are also attractive because we have created many high-level research niches and attractive conditions. Can we do better? Can we put more resources into it? I insist: dedicating 1.5% of GDP to research should make us a little ashamed, it's very low, but we also have to continue advancing in improving the indicator, and I believe there is political will to do so.