Elma Saiz: "Concern about immigration is more contrived than real."

MadridA week after the Congress of Deputies rejected the delegation of immigration powers to the Generalitat (Catalan Government) and the PP proposed a "points-based visa" to control new arrivals, ARA interviewed the minister in charge, Elma Saiz.

We don't know when the next elections will be, but it seems that immigration will be one of the main topics of debate. Why?

— This is happening not only in Spain, but across all international agendas. For example, President [Donald] Trump's migration policy is instilling fear and causing pain. In Spain, we are committed to implementing the European Pact on Immigration and Asylum from a humanist perspective. Migratory flows are inherent to human beings, not only because of the complex international context we are currently experiencing, but also because of climate change, so it's important to consider how migration policy is managed.

Last week, the People's Party (PP) proposed a points-based visa. What do you think?

— If you can call them proposals... The PP twisted and presented a reality that doesn't fit with what's happening. They talk about uncontrolled migration, and the figures refute this. Illegal arrivals represent only 6% of the total. We're looking at affiliation data in which foreigners play a very important role. These two issues alone dismantle the false narrative that the PP is trying to present about uncontrolled migration. They're trying to create new proposals, but what they are is a bravado of xenophobia and racism. The points-based visa is a regulatory aberration that contravenes European regulations and the Constitution, and is discriminatory. Mr. [Alberto Núñez] Feijóo would do well not to be swayed by misinformation and lies in the purest far-right style.

Is there first-class and second-class immigration?

— This is what the far right and the People's Party (PP) are playing with. They're trying to instill in society the idea that foreigners come to collect a state allowance, when the regulations themselves, for example, regarding the minimum living wage, require legal residency for at least one year. And they're also playing on the perception that there is a much larger foreign population, when the data doesn't reflect this; or on the perception that 40% are unemployed. It's important to dismantle this with data.

Is the right successfully setting the agenda on immigration?

— They're not setting the agenda. What's happening is that the PP has chosen to buy into the far-right's framework and create an irresponsible opposition. The reality is stubborn: Spain is a land of opportunity. Various international organizations assess the macroeconomic data and point out that they are sustained by the dynamic migration. This is what's setting the agenda. And the opposition, in a supreme exercise of irresponsibility, is trying to follow what the far-right dictates, because what they're doing is competing electorally with Vox. [...] I would say to Feijóo that if your rhetoric is like Vox's or if your policies are like Vox's, PP voters, when they have to make a decision, will vote for Vox.

For the welfare state, what does the migration phenomenon represent: a threat, a challenge, or an opportunity? 

— What impoverishes our country is the extreme right's way of seeing life and its policies. I don't like to speak only in economic terms, but various organizations have estimated the need for some 300,000 foreign workers each year to sustain our welfare state. And it's a reality that there are more than 3 million foreign Social Security affiliates, another 20,000 in the last month, and 200,000 in the last year. Furthermore, we are an eminently foreign country. Before a Senegalese or a Latin American arrived, our grandparents sought a life abroad, fleeing the war.

Has a dehumanizing debate on immigration been established?

— The fight against hate speech on social media is very important, and the major platforms have taken a step forward and are aware that it is necessary to be much more forceful because it dehumanizes the migrant population, which can spread to society. We saw this this summer in Torre Pacheco. That's why speeches like Feijóo's in Murcia, in which there was not a shred of humanity in a context marked by the genocide in Gaza, are irresponsible.

Together speaks of a feeling of grievance because there are immigrant families who receive lunch scholarships and, on the other hand, families native are excluded. Should Catalonia increase investment in public services and social policies?

— Never before have so many resources been placed in the hands of the autonomous communities so they can assume and address their responsibilities. On migration policy, an important agreement has been reached between the PSOE and Junts, and I find it very positive and noteworthy that an autonomous community wants to take a step forward in assuming certain responsibilities in an issue as complex as migration policy.

But is the talk of grievance justified?

— But, look. Let's look at the housing issue, for example, in Catalonia. There is a state housing law that the autonomous communities must comply with. In Barcelona, ​​specifically, housing prices have dropped by 9% because it has been declared a stressed area. This is a reflection of institutional collaboration to respond to citizens' needs. In contrast, in Madrid, Mrs. [Isabel Díaz] Ayuso is addressing not those who have problems accessing housing, but investment funds, telling them that this is the best time and place to invest. It's important to see different ways of facing reality. And what has to do with the growth in membership also translates to Catalonia. There are more people working, more people who can develop their life plans in better conditions.

What self-criticism should left-wing forces engage in to prevent certain discourses from being imposed?

— I think it's important to analyze the agreement reached between the parties. An agreement that puts it in black and white, beyond discourses that may be shared more or less, or may not be shared at all. This is an agreement that speaks of protecting the vulnerable, of a social contract that grants rights and responsibilities to the entire population, that speaks of human rights, and that speaks of exciting future projects. This is the reality, the agreements that are being reached. And, of course, we must combat the misinformation that could link the migrant population to issues that are not in line with reality.

Are you worried that a party like Aliança Catalana will drag Junts into the far-right?

— What gives me confidence is the migration agreement between the PSOE and Junts. I'm familiar with the text, which has received a lot of opinions, but I don't know if it's been read enough. The Generalitat (Catalan government) and local governments are much more familiar with the productive fabric, the needs of businesses and workers, so it makes sense for them to participate in circular immigration programs with third countries. Or, for example, to facilitate the bureaucratic process with a one-stop shop. These agreements are made to move toward a more effective policy and to put human rights at the center and combat any kind of racism or xenophobia that some people want to instill.

Do you trust Junts not to buy the Aliança framework?

— What seems important to me is the agreement [on the delegation of powers] signed with Junts.

Will they try to bring the delegation of powers back to Congress, or will they look for other avenues?

— Political parties must take a stand. The [Spanish] government will continue working to move forward and fulfill the agreements.

The number of migrants arriving in the Balearic Islands is increasing, and the Balearic government is pointing to a lack of resources. Could a situation like the one in the Canary Islands be a possibility?

— These situations are not at all comparable; the numbers are completely irrelevant. Furthermore, I want to point out that in recent weeks, a significant emergency declaration was approved very quickly, with more than 7 million euros allocated to strengthen and adapt facilities to provide an appropriate response to the Balearic Islands.

I mentioned the events in Torre Pacheco earlier. Is Spanish society racist?

— No. I think it's the far right that's trying to disrupt our coexistence and, with their outlook on life and policies, trying to make us a poorer country socially and economically. But Spanish society isn't racist.

When families are uncomfortable with their children attending school with children of foreign origin, does this reflect a society that is not prepared for demographic change and that, at its core, racism does exist?

— We analyzed the CIS (Central Statistics Institute). A year ago, we asked if migration was a concern, and we saw that the number of people who considered it a concern was significant. On the contrary, when we asked if it concerned them in their daily lives, the number plummeted. Today, a year later, it's only a problem above others for 3.2% of the population. That's why a created concern is not the same as a real concern. When in Jumella (Murcia), the PP and Vox prohibit the use of a sports center for a Muslim celebration, violating freedom of worship, it is disrupting coexistence in a population where there is no problem. I insist on differentiating between a created concern and a real concern.

In Barcelona the so-called grow expatsBut there's no debate from a migration perspective. Is there a class bias?

— Absolutely. We can see it in the case of minors. Since Putin invaded Ukraine, more than 7,000 unaccompanied minors have arrived from the country. All the regions have done their best to welcome them. This hasn't made any headlines, nor has it sparked any controversy, nor has it become politicized. Instead, we're seeing how the PP-led regions are refusing [to welcome other unaccompanied minors]. Furthermore, they're lying because they're trying to convey the narrative that there are communities that aren't included in the reception scheme, such as Catalonia and the Basque Country.

On Thursday, we learned the new membership figures. What jobs are being created?

— Job creation goes hand in hand with quality. Incidentally, in Catalonia, 19% of the workforce is foreign, five percentage points above the Spanish average. We've managed to correct problems in our labor market, and this hasn't come out of the blue. It's the result of implementing policies in the right direction.

The ILP (Proposal for a Legalization of Half a Million Migrants) remains blocked in Congress. Is the Spanish government considering expediting the process through other means?

— It's a task for the political parties. It's in Congress where it should be debated.

A new contribution scheme for the self-employed is being negotiated. Will there be an agreement before the end of the year?

— Yes, I'm optimistic. Meetings are taking place frequently, and all the stakeholders who need to be there are present. Two important issues are on the table: improving access to cessation of activity and issues related to priority.

There's also no agreement on progressive sick pay for workers. This has raised concerns among unions about whether they're buying into employers' narratives about absenteeism. Do you think some workers are taking advantage of sick pay?

— I wouldn't put the focus on workers. Health is the focus, and no one in that country can work while on sick leave. We're putting measures on the table to advance the improvement of rights, and this has to do with this gradual reinstatement once discharged.

How do you ensure that workers are not pressured to return for fear of losing their job?

— A worker cannot work while on sick leave; they can only return to work when they receive a doctor's release. We're talking about a return to work that isn't from zero to one hundred percent, but rather progressive. For example, after a cancer treatment, under medical criteria, a worker can return to work gradually. I insist: medical criteria, voluntary return, and the health of workers are at the heart of the proposal.

Are you confident of closing the deal before the end of the year?

— I am an optimist.

Your predecessor, José Luis Escrivá, said in an interview with ARA that in Spain "a cultural change is needed to ensure that people work more between the ages of 55 and 75" and avoid early retirement. Do you agree with this?

— It's important to keep in mind the voluntary nature of decisions, ensuring that they have nothing to do with insufficient pensions. Extending the retirement age or working a few hours and counting them toward your pension, which is what we're talking about, cannot be conditioned on insufficient benefits. That's why it's so important to revalue pensions, guaranteeing security for pensioners and offering voluntary options to also take advantage of senior talent. The way we live, work, and life expectancy have changed.

Regarding the revaluation of salaries. Do you understand why young people are wary when an income agreement is requested and salaries are raised by 2% or 3% and the maximum pension by 8.5%?

— Trying to pit the elderly against their grandchildren is a perverse and dangerous war. Young people should know that many of the policies we are implementing are aimed at them: the minimum wage, extending maternity and paternity leave to 19 weeks... But, evidently, we are committed to guaranteeing this pension revaluation by law. Pensioners don't appear overnight; they are people who have been contributing to the system for 30 or 40 years, and we must provide them with security, social justice, and guarantee their pensions.

Is the Spanish government doing everything it can [in the face of the conflict] in Gaza?

— It's the government in the world that's doing the most to promote the resolution of both states, to achieve peace in Gaza, to demand an end to the genocide, to protect the flotilla through consular and diplomatic work. This is what the Spanish government is doing.