Martin Baron: "I gave up on bulletproof glass because they weren't going to install it for the entire newsroom"

BarcelonaA totem of United States journalism, Martin Baron has commanded the newsrooms of three of the country's capital newspapers such as the Washington Post, the Boston Globe and the Miami Herald, with which he published major exclusives awarded with more than a dozen Pulitzer Prizes. The journalist visited Barcelona as part of the Ortega y Gasset awards organized annually by El País.

In his book Collision of power he describes Trump as an “aspiring authoritarian”. He wrote this before he reached his second presidency. Would he update the description now?

— I think he remains an autocrat aspirant. Many people say he wants to be a dictator, but that minimizes his aspirations: he wants to be an emperor. That's why he talks about taking over Canada, Greenland, about building condos in the Gaza Strip. Or that's why he is the puppeteer of Venezuela and the government members are his puppets there. He is a man who wants to expand the borders of the United States and who wants to dictate to journalists what they should say and what words they should use.

Either with me, or against me.

— He doesn't want allies, he wants vassals. Members of the Republican Party are submissive and we have a Supreme Court prostrate to their desires. And he wants this same posture of submission for the countries that are allies of the United States, which means not respecting their sovereignty.

He retired in 2021. When he sees all this fuss, doesn't he feel the urge to pick up the typewriter again, if you'll allow the romantic image, or to run an editorial office again?

— Well, I retired after working 45 years non-stop. I was completely exhausted, especially after the year 2020, an intense year due to the pandemic, the murder of George Floyd, the presidential elections and the aftermath of the elections, and on top of that, I also suffered an illness that year. Working in the media in the digital age means working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, every minute. And I don't want to work all the time anymore: I wanted more flexibility, more freedom in my personal life.

Did you make it? Sometimes it's not easy to get off the carousel...

— I now spend a good deal of time giving speeches, participating in panel discussions, debating what the relationship between journalists and politicians should be... I have thought about the possibility of writing another book, but I would not want to spend all my time thinking about Trump. Besides, there is no good market for books about Trump now because many American citizens have disconnected from information. People are fed up with Trump, fed up with reading about Trump, and they are moving away from the news. Many doctors, when patients explain the anxiety they suffer, prescribe them to avoid the news. Perhaps there will be a new book, but I have not yet made a firm decision about this and, for the moment, I am enjoying my freedom and flexibility.

What would be the three fundamental recipes for journalism, as has been reflected in recent years?

— First, let's hold on to the intrinsic values of journalism: get the facts, verify them, and put them in the proper context.

Excuse me for interrupting. What you mention is a basic of the trade. Aren't we doing it enough?

— Well, some media outlets do... and others don't. And I also think there's too much activism among some journalists. I understand where it comes from, but our role is different and I believe in independent journalism, rather than militant journalism.

Second recipe, then.

— We have to change the way we disseminate information because the way we consume information is changing. You only have to look at how, three years ago, no one was talking about artificial intelligence and now it's in all conversations: you can't go to a company meeting without it being discussed. We have to find a way to embrace all these changes while at the same time defending our core values.

And the third?

— Defend rights: the right to freedom of expression, to freedom of the press. These are the same rights that every individual would want for themselves. After all, we are talking about the right to discover facts, to share them with others, and to express an opinion about what should be done. There are no specific rights for the press: they are rights for anyone. Media owners should also defend these rights. But, unfortunately, some business people do not defend the rights that gave rise to their companies and that have sustained democracies.

In his book, he narrates that, while he was director of the Washington Post, Jeff Bezos did not interfere with the newspaper. Now he has started to meddle, and you have publicly criticized him.

— So far it has not interfered with news coverage. There is a tradition in the United States whereby the news department and the opinion department work with a wall in between, disconnected. On the opinion pages it is evident that the newspaper's political line has changed: it intervened and now the newspaper maintains a center-right opinion and a staunch defender of the free market. But I hope it does not interfere with the informational part.

¿Has talked, lately?

— No, I haven't spoken to him recently. Our relationship has deteriorated, I suppose because of my public criticism. So no, he has not asked for my opinion on the future of the Washington Post.

Are we at the beginning of the end for the newspaper? Thousands of subscribers have unsubscribed and there have been hundreds of layoffs...

— I hope it has not entered into a spiral of decline. I believe the company can be turned around, because there is still a lot of talent working in it despite the exodus of professionals it has suffered. Bezos's actions have harmed the brand of the Washington Post, and this is a disgrace. Despite everything, the newspaper is practicing good journalism and continues to hold the Trump administration and other politicians accountable.

How, then, is the spiral broken?

— When I arrived at the Post in 2013, everyone said it was irrelevant and couldn't be changed. What it lacked was a contemporary vision and a contemporary strategy, because the playing field, since my generation, had changed a lot. It is up to the owner, the CEO, and their team to now develop a new vision. But I am still waiting for their words explaining how they plan to do it, because I haven't heard them say anything, as of yet.

Almost half a century of experience. What has been the toughest moment for practicing journalism?

— When I made the decision to release the most classified US documents on national security. I had to think about the safety of my fellow citizens, but also about the possibility of prosecution against the entire enterprise, including journalists. It was very difficult, but it was a very deep intrusion into the privacy of the country's citizens.

Let's talk about the pressures and threats received. In 2018, they offered to install bulletproof glass in his office.

— Well, we also receive a lot of supportive messages from readers, fortunately.

In any case, he rejected the measure.

— I gave up on bulletproof glass because they weren't going to install it for the entire newsroom. I didn't want to be the only one to receive that protection.

Five years before this, would you have imagined that you might one day need this armor to protect your integrity?

— Of course not. The situation regarding the safety of journalists has completely changed. At the newspaper, we had to reinforce and improve security for our journalists. Some even needed bodyguards. The atmosphere in the United States has changed from top to bottom due to extreme polarization. Trump says nothing, or almost nothing, about violence against people who are his supposed political enemies. They are not enemies, but participants in democracy. Or adversaries, but not enemies. His words have contributed to hostility, and he should do more to resolve this situation.

Talks about Google, Facebook, and Amazon as frenemies, the contraction between friends and enemies, friends and enemies. The press is working for the enemy, although it disguises an iron fist with a velvet glove?

— Well, there's no other choice but to be on the platforms. The big tech companies own them and we have no way of creating our own, so we must find a way to work with them. But it's true that these companies have a lot of power over the future of our profession and over the future of our democracy. Over the future of the world, in short.

Do you think they will live up to this responsibility?

— I don't think so. They never think about the impact on society or responsibility, but about their profits and their financial future. And this is partly explained by the great competition between them, particularly regarding AI.

A mischievous question. In 2019 Paul Krugman even proposed Jeff Bezos for the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. Since we are doing the interview right on the day the awards are announced, do you think it would be possible today for...?

— [River]. No, I don't think it will happen.

Beyond the boutade, what has been the profound change that has occurred in these years to explain this shift by Bezos?

— The fear of Trump's revenge. I can't get inside Bezos's head, but I can guess why I think he has given in. During Trump's first term, Bezos resisted Trump's pressure and took a very brave stance on his part: Amazon lost government contracts due to this resistance. But during his last campaign, Trump had already warned that he would take revenge on his political enemies. And Bezos always considered himself one of the enemies for one reason alone: the coverage of the Washington Post. Bezos felt the need to repair his relationships because Amazon would have lost contracts with the government and would also have lost Blue Origin, his space company. And we must remember that Amazon is the source of his wealth and Blue Origin is the apple of his eye, while the Washington Post is neither of these two things.

The list of gestures to please Trump is extensive.

— He removed the editorial that supported Kamala Harris, modified the opinion pages so that there are now almost no left-wing or center-left commentators, attended the inauguration, Amazon bought the rights to the documentary about Melania –although calling it a documentary is very generous– and also announced that it would stream Trump's series The apprentice. And, of course, the president receives half of the profits from this television program. Everything Bezos has done with the Washington Post I can only explain by fear. Obviously, he has denied it, but there is no other explanation for such a marked change.