Jaume Duch: "I was impressed by Zelensky's humanity"

BarcelonaThe only condition that Jaume Duch Guillot (Barcelona, 1962) set for President Salvador Illa when he proposed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to him was to change the order of the job title. That is to say, changing from Minister of Foreign Action and European Union of Catalonia to Minister of European Union and Foreign Action of Catalonia. Europe at the forefront. At a decisive and urgent moment for the continent, Duch reviews current international affairs and the role that Catalonia can play. The conversation takes place weeks after having met with Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv, on a trip led by the president, Salvador Illa, and the mayor of Barcelona, Jaume Collboni.

How did you see Zelensky?

— Honestly, it surprised me, I was impressed by his most human element, his humanity. It struck me that a leader who lives on the very front line of a nearly five-year war continues to be an affable, friendly, open person. I saw a person interested in having this meeting with President [Salvador] Illa. At no point did it seem like he was in a hurry to end the meeting; quite the contrary.

What message did the Ukrainian president convey to them?

— Personally, I returned with two messages that I believe are relevant. The first is that it is very difficult for Russia to ever win this war. The front has been practically stalled for a long time, and this means that the Ukrainians have been capable of stopping the Russian invasion. And now, even though the Kremlin's troops control an important part of Ukraine, they find themselves unable to make significant advances because the forces are balanced. Furthermore, the front line is now a great zone of death and modifying it implies many human lives. For this reason, Moscow has also changed its strategy and is dedicating much effort to bombing the big cities, the civilian population, to wear them down. And the second message, which struck me especially, is the certainty that the Ukrainians have that this winter will be very, very harsh. As have all the others, yes, but this one in an even more special way. And this suffering of the population is, without a doubt, one of the Kremlin's war objectives.

A few days ago, the Ukrainian ambassador to Spain, Yuliia Sokolovska, said in an interview with ARA that, for her, the relationship with Catalonia is especially important.

— Catalonia is doing a lot to support Ukraine. In these last few months, the government has approved a support program that includes an important part of humanitarian aid as well as a boost in commercial relations and support for the reconstruction of Ukraine. But the support that Catalonia sends does not come only from the government, but also comes from organized civil society or from many non-governmental organizations that are very present in Kyiv. And all of this, effectively, has a specific weight in the relationship and in the perception that Ukraine may have of Catalonia.

The war in Ukraine has accentuated, in a way, the context of hybrid warfare in Europe, increasingly palpable. What is Catalonia doing to prepare itself?

— As a territory that is part of the European Union, Catalonia is obviously also immersed in this process of change that we see in Europe and which is advancing, I believe, towards achieving an increasingly autonomous European security and defense policy. And I believe that, particularly, we are at a moment where it is important, and very much so, to equip ourselves with new technologies to face these new scenarios. Cyber defense is and will be key, and we see it these days with the attacks against supermarkets in Europe or with waves of bomb threats against airplanes across the continent. None of these episodes is isolated and it is evident that someone is behind them. And probably, it should not be detached from the context of Russia's war against Ukraine and the threat that this poses to Europe.

Are we Catalans aware of these risks?

— I hope that Catalan society has realized that the world today does not have much to do with the world of a few years ago. Many things have changed: the foreign policy of the United States, Russia's violence against Europe, all the norms that governed diplomacy and international relations have been called into question, and force is once again taking precedence over rights. I understand that the threat is felt closer in countries near Russia, for example, than in the south. But we must also understand that there are many ways to destabilize a society and they affect us too: disinformation, polarization, electoral interference. All of this is already happening and is already having consequences.

Are you worried about electoral interference in the Spanish elections on November 29th?

— We are busy, more than worried. We have seen electoral interference in different European countries, at different times and elections, starting with Brexit, where it was key to conditioning the opinion of the British citizenry. And these days we have had another clear example in Brazil. Therefore, we cannot close our eyes and think that this will not happen to us. It may happen to us and it may not, but we must certainly be prepared in case it does. 

Usually one points to Moscow. But is it necessary to point in other directions?

— We must look to the east of the European Union. But we must also look to the west. The United States has had very specific interventions in Latin America and, at the beginning of Trump's term, its national strategy was published, in which it stated very clearly that it would support Europhobic, extremist political forces that work to destroy European unity.

And should we also aim towards the south?

— You have to look everywhere because the world is very global.

This week, Pedro Sánchez was in Barcelona and one of the phrases he said from here is that Spain is governed from Spain. Not from Washington, not from Moscow, not from Tel-Aviv, not from Buenos Aires. He said nothing about Rabat.

— Morocco is one of Spain's three geographical neighbors, and it is the border between two continents, located at a very strategic point and which, furthermore, separates two societies with very different standards of living. And all of this carries weight, obviously, and means that the relationship with Morocco must be handled, let's say, in a delicate manner.

What role did Morocco play in the crisis in Ceuta?

— Honestly, I do not know. And, therefore, I prefer not to speculate. 

Were you surprised by the lack of European solidarity with Spain, especially in the first hours of the assault?

— Time puts everyone in their place. The governments that signed that letter [which blamed the Sánchez government for the crisis in Ceuta] were mistaken, probably motivated by the pressure that migratory issues exert on society and in the polls. But later, many realized it and rectified. They forgot, however, that one of the fundamental principles for the European Union to function well is that of solidarity.

How do you assess Donald Trump's crushing defeat in the midterm elections?

— It is a very important result for the United States, but also for a good part of the world, because it is a defeat for Trump and, therefore, also for the MAGA movement and its allies. Now, this does not mean that we should fall asleep, because Trump will continue to be president for two years. In fact, we also cannot trust that the United States' relations with Europe will return to what they were before. Some things have changed forever. 

Will Pedro Sánchez internationalize the November 29th campaign?

— Look, we can even find a parallel in the mid-term elections in the United States: when there is civic mobilization, it is possible to stand up to extremist positions and authoritarianism. We have also seen this in Brazil, Serbia, and Hungary. When people see that there is a danger of going backwards and losing milestones of prosperity and progress, and in the case of Catalonia I would even say of self-government, there is the possibility of curbing authoritarianism and betting on the continuity of policies that actually work.

The official status of Catalan remains stalled in the EU. Do you still trust it?

— The Government has not stopped working to make it a reality and the Spanish government has taken it very seriously. It has even proposed conditioning the expansion of the European Union to new member states on the official status of Catalan, and it makes complete sense. It would be incomprehensible if countries that join the Union, with languages with far fewer speakers than Catalan, obtain this recognition while we do not. Significant progress has been made in recent months, but I must also say that it is somewhat surprising that some who demand it so much have not measured the consequences of provoking a snap election in Spain that puts this claim at risk.