Francesca Albanese: "I want to believe that we can see Netanyahu tried in an international court."

The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Palestine, Francesca Albanese, is one of the voices that have most forcefully denounced the genocide in GazaHis reports have served to highlight not only the atrocities committed in recent years in the Gaza Strip, but also the complicity of third countries and companies that profit from the situation in the Middle East. He publishes When the world sleeps (Galaxia Gutenberg), a journey through 10 conversations that move between intimate and political discourse, and attempt to answer key questions about impunity, resistance, war, and peace.

How would you define the situation in Gaza today?

— Apocalyptic, a time of total destruction. Israel has created the conditions to prevent a dignified life. Homeless, living in makeshift tents, without access to adequate medical care… And what people struggle to understand most is that the illegality of this situation is structural. Israel has no legal authority to do what it does (not even because it's in the West Bank); even in war there are rules. But this isn't a war. For Israel, the Palestinians aren't an enemy to be defeated, but a people to be annihilated.

What does this tell us about the UN?

— It's in a difficult situation. The UN is cornered; without unity, it's becoming increasingly irrelevant. In fact, we only talk about the Peace Council now; we don't even hear about the UN, and that should give us pause, because it confirms what we've been saying for some time: Israel and the United States are abandoning the international system that was created after the war, and a new one is being defined. And we don't understand the gravity and implications of this.

If Israel's presence is declared illegal but continues, if there is a treaty against genocide but genocide is committed, does international law still exist?

— The law exists, but it is violated. We can question its effectiveness, because the law is nullified when there is no political will, and yet the right is still there. The fact that it is violated and nullified does not mean it does not exist. Some believe in the pursuit of peace based on international law, while others think that force is sufficient. But there is a conquest of human rights that manifested itself in the constitutionalism following the Second World War, and these are rights that were codified internationally. Countries like Spain and Italy suffered violent fascism—some remember it—and unfortunately, in some places, also in Europe, we are returning to certain forms of authoritarianism.

Why is it so difficult to impose sanctions on Israel? Is it because of the Israeli lobby?

— It goes even further. There's a concept I've been expressing for some time, but which is perhaps better understood now with the Epstein scandal. I think we're sometimes misled by the idea of ​​the state. I don't believe states have absolute power; within each one, there's a power that operates visibly. This is where financial, economic, military, and technological power is concentrated, the power of lobbyists… and these are the ones who are above the law. And it's this system that prevents the law from being applied equally to everyone.

How are these powers related?

— There is a connection of interests between these men, as my report demonstrates. From the economics of employment to the economics of genocideBanks and major centers of power emerge, forming a network where religion isn't the fundamental element, but rather a supremacist ideology that sees some as superior to others. And at the heart of this idea, we find that certain groups are worthy of being killed, destroyed. What would have happened if the Israelis had suffered a tenth of what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians? There would almost certainly have been a world war in the region.

She has received threats and her lectures have been canceled due to political pressure in various places, including universities in Germany. Is she afraid?

— Yes, of course I'm afraid. The repression of academic and expressive freedom is typical of a return to authoritarian methods. And repression always becomes methodical when power is in the hands of those who believe they can govern above or despite the law. This is what we're seeing right now. And the fear is there, yes, but I also try not to let it control me, because I'm more afraid of the world that looms if we don't stop this disrespect for the law that has become systemic. This scares me much more than my individual situation.

Is there a risk of radicalization within Gaza?

— I'm no expert on the subject. Violence certainly radicalizes, but the Palestinians are also unique, because despite everything that has happened in the last century, the majority of the population has remained unradicalized. But this is a question that should be asked of experts, not lawyers.

Hamas is the most voted-for force. Is that a problem for the Palestinians?

— Everything related to the oppression that prevents Palestinians from living and determining their own lives is a problem. I believe Hamas wouldn't exist were it not for such a violent and corrupt occupation. Is this a problem for Palestinians? Yes, it is, but I repeat: the main problem is the illegal employment and the crimes it commits.

He recounts in his book When the world sleeps As the Israeli historian Alo Confino told him, in the midst of the offensive against Gaza: "Israel is finished." Do you agree?

— I think he was talking about a system of values. There's a segment of the Israeli population that isn't Zionist. That is, they love their country, Israel, but not above equality and democracy. But I think Israel, as it was until two or three years ago, is finished. It's held together by the existence of an external enemy, and there's a need to oppress the Palestinians as if it were the only way to survive as a state and as a people, but an internal crisis is looming.

A crisis that could bring down Netanyahu?

— For now, I don't think so.

Does Netanyahu foresee being sentenced soon by international justice?

— I want to believe it's possible.

Is this a solvable crisis?

— Yes, it is resolved by applying the law: recognizing the Palestinian people's right to self-determination, lifting the Israeli occupation, supporting the Palestinians through mechanisms they trust, such as the United Nations, but above all ensuring that those who end up sitting before the International Criminal Court can be held accountable.

Does the solution involve two states?

— It's up to the Israelis and Palestinians to decide between one state and two states. In my opinion, two states remains a complicated situation; even one state is complicated, but there can be no solution without first looking for one.

Can the UN have a future if Donald Trump remains president of the United States?

— I'm tempted to see it this way: how can the UN remain relevant despite Trump? For me, that's the question. Because ultimately, Trump and the United States are one country, but where are the other 192? And what is Europe doing? Spain is fortunate because it has maintained a less hypocritical position, and I think the guidance of countries like Spain and South Africa, which have been more respectful of international law, is important. And I hope that Spain will join the Hague Group, the group of states whose objective is to adopt a series of measures to cease being complicit in genocide. The question is precisely this: what are the rest doing?

But not all countries are the same, because some have veto power in the United Nations.

— Of course, but international obligations remain in force with or without a Security Council veto, and ultimately the responsibility lies with states to do the right thing and not use either the European Union or the United Nations as an excuse to violate their international obligations.