Olympia Arango: "There are men who prefer to work longer hours in the office rather than be at home bathing the children."

BarcelonaWhat happens when economics understands that gender is not simply a variable in statistics? Olympia Arango (Asturias, 1999) is a behavioral economist and champions this approach in her book Women and moneyPublished by La Magrana. A researcher in public policy analysis projects and a regular contributor to the media, she reflects on the social structures that explain inequalities between men and women.

Why does the argument that "In my job, men and women get paid the same" still persist?

— The gender pay gap ultimately tells you about average hours worked, how much a man earns, and how much a woman earns. This is very aggregated data. Let's ask ourselves why there are more women in certain sectors than in others. Let's look at why promotions are often penalized when maternity leave is involved. You might have the same base salary, but he's negotiated a raise and you haven't, and that has an impact, even if you're doing the same work. The environment will never be neutral because there are sociopolitical structures that govern it. If it were neutral, we probably wouldn't have these gaps, or they would be much smaller.

What differences exist between men and women when it comes to competing and negotiating?

— When you look at the results of experiments, women compete and negotiate less. But the important thing isn't defining that there's inequality, but understanding why it exists. For example, if people are shown that they can negotiate, that difference between men and women is reduced. It might be because women's overall self-esteem is lower than men's, which influences competitiveness. But if the context doesn't make it easy for me to compete and negotiate, I'll continue to reproduce these inequalities. Furthermore, what happens if a woman deviates from what's expected of her? In the end, gender is a very small box that limits you. If I'm being penalized for stepping outside this norm, what will I do? Hold back and stay within what's defined as traditional gender. This is very dangerous.

But there will also be differences among women.

— One of my papers favorites talks about theacting wife effectThe effect of acting like a married woman. It tells us that single heterosexual women show lower levels of ambition and negotiation than men, especially when they have a partner. However, married women don't show this as much. We're talking about an experiment with MBA students at Columbia University. This means we're really screwed, because the dynamics of romantic and sexual relationships are shaping how I socialize and compete with men simply because I'm single.

What are the implications of GDP not taking care work into account?

— It is clear that care work underpins all other economic activities included in GDP. These activities are assumed to be performed by women. Various theories exist regarding their inclusion in GDP, but currently we lack a common currency for doing so.

What is the paradox of happiness?

— Typically, women report higher levels of happiness in surveys. However, we then see that women have higher rates of anxiety and depression. Shouldn't a less happy man experience more anxiety, depression, or apathy? There's a paradox. The explanation researchers have found is that women report higher levels of emotional well-being because we tend to want to please others in general and give a "Yes, I'm fine" response. But it could also be that we're happier because we know ourselves better. If you were socialized from a young age with the understanding that emotions are important, you've been able to learn to identify them. That's why I remember the higher male suicide rate compared to the female rate, because we have an emotional support network that men don't. We experience more anxiety and depression, but we can identify them.

How does dedicating more time to caregiving penalize women?

— Time is a limited resource. If I'm dedicating more time and feeling more responsibility for caring for others, I can't dedicate it to other things, like professional development or rest. It also has a lot to do with the very nature of the tasks we take on. In many meetings, you see that, despite having the same position, women take on the more administrative tasks, such as taking minutes, managing schedules, or checking emails. Meanwhile, men make the decisions and have more of a leadership role.

You also explain the concept of "greedy jobs".

— For example, a man who prefers to work longer hours at the office rather than be at home bathing the children. The question is why women do prefer to dedicate more time to this. This is a concept coined by Claudia Goldin, and it illustrates that salaries for certain types of jobs are closely related to the hours you indicate as available. If I'm willing to answer a phone at 8:30 p.m. on a Friday, there's a financial benefit. Men are more likely to explicitly state this. The interesting question is why we do show availability for other types of tasks.

Does equalizing maternity and paternity leave also contribute to this?

— The moment you equalize them, the interesting thing is to see not only the short-term impact but also the medium- and long-term ones. The direct impact may not only be on the parents but also on the children. When paternity and maternity leave are equalized, the gender norms that children have internalized are less pronounced as they see that the involvement and availability are more or less equivalent between men and women.

How does the gap change when it comes to a same-sex female couple?

— These studies are just beginning to develop, and what they're finding so far is that when we're talking about female couples versus male-female couples, the gender pay gap after having the first child isn't as significant in same-sex female couples. This is very interesting because it relates to how we divide our time and what we do or don't take on in the labor market and in the home.

Why are the profiles we see talking about investment on social media mostly male?

— If, on average, women have lower self-esteem and a greater aversion to risk compared to men, this means we're more reluctant to invest. I'm sure it's not the only reason, but it would explain why women generally don't talk about these topics as much, nor why there aren't as many YouTube or TikTok channels run by them. Perhaps men are more accustomed to talking about money than we are. Does it make us self-conscious? Are we ashamed?