Lluís Pastor: "What the dead say most is: 'I'm fine.'"

Lluís Pastor, professor of social communication at the UOC, is one of the names that frequently appears in the media to analyze aspects related to political communication. But for years, he has added a line of research to communication between the living that is, to say the least, peculiar: communication with the dead. This is what he analyzes in his latest book, The same dead return (Luciernaga Publishing House).

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— No, I saw that no one considered communication with the deceased important, and it is a topic that can be investigated.

What does "communication between deaths" mean?

— A living person who has had some communication with a deceased person through the physical senses: has seen them, smelled them, heard them, touched them, or felt their presence. I don't investigate Ouija board users or seek out mediums.

But does it really happen?

— People say it happens, just like they think they've kissed their husband twice or eaten with their coworkers.

They could be wrong.

— And they might not be. Between 20% and 30% of the population says they've had contact with a deceased person.

Where does the data come from?

— From the surveys conducted by the big news agencies. The same ones that tell us if we sleep well or drink a lot of wine. And they make news about this, and we don't question it. We don't know if they're actually dead; perhaps it's a mechanism we don't understand. But people say it happens. And it's worth investigating.

Let's give an example.

— Three friends went out to have a coffee with milk and play brisca. On their way back home, they saw an acquaintance on the sidewalk next door and greeted each other. When they got upstairs, they told one of the women they had found Fermín, and she replied, "It's impossible. He's been dead for two months."

It's funny that all three of them saw him.

— There are also many stories about pets that react differently. Or children who, lacking the entire cultural baggage, react differently. For example, a little girl who found her grandmother at home. When she mentioned it, they told her it was impossible. And she replied, "She was wearing a white dress with red bows, and she looked younger." The grandmother's sister went to rummage through the clothes. And the little girl said, "This one!" And it turns out it was an outfit she liked when she was very young, and the little girl had never seen her wear it.

When you investigate, you look for patterns, right?

— We've identified five recurring elements: they are brief communications, lasting just a few seconds. The person dresses and behaves as they did in life. In many cases, a light appears. Often, the person is gaseous; they don't appear as solid as we do. And finally, it's interesting: when people loved in life, there are messages.

What do they say?

— The most repeated statistically are: "I'm fine."

Can't you be influenced by grief?

— If we crunch the numbers, 25% of messages are received in the first week after the death, another 25% in the first month, and another 25% in the first year. There are still 25% of cases that can arrive much later. These are pragmatic messages: the clues you're looking for are in the third drawer. There are many documented ones.

And it doesn't leave you feeling bad?

— Yes, but it's no coincidence that we think that. Does the name Ludwig Lavater ring a bell?

What does this have to do with this?

— The story is long and has to do with the Catholic Church. In the Roman world, the dead were not taboo; they were present. But when the Church replaced Roman beliefs, priests faced the problem of people telling them: "I saw my grandfather," "my father," etc.

And it couldn't be anymore?

— The Holy Scriptures don't foresee this. We live and die, and depending on our sins, we go to heaven or hell.

And how do they solve it?

— In the 12th century, they decided to create a waiting room for those who had committed minor sins: they called it purgatory. And since money was needed, the Church said: "If you pay, we will pray hard for them, to reduce their punishment and allow them to go to paradise sooner." And in the face of this commercialization of ideas, there was the Protestant Revolt.

And Lavater appears.

— Yes, he rebels against this. And it's the first thing that gives an answer to the apparitions of the dead: it's the devil disguised as your father, mother, or grandfather. And any connection with a deceased person becomes diabolical from the 16th century onwards.

And this reaches us today?

— It's the dominant Church in the Anglo-Saxon world, and it's the culture that exists in the books and movies we see. This has come to us, and obviously, the Enlightenment has come to us as well.

What's happening with the Enlightenment?

— These topics, which were once researched by respected scientists, are also tainted from a rationalist perspective. And this is compounded by the 19th century, in which the craze of seeking deaths through mediums, etc., began to take hold, making them viewed with even more regret.

What do you think about mediums?

— Lluís in 2014 didn't believe anything; the one in 2025 thinks there are people who have some special antenna; that doesn't mean others don't want to deceive with this.

Where do you want to go?

— I'd like to know what's happening. And if not, leave it at a point where others can continue.

But do you think it's possible to talk to the other side?

— We don't know what happened in the first microsecond of the Universe, so instead we speculate and research. We don't know if we'll ever cure cancer, and people are fighting every day to make that happen. We must research to find out what's happening, or stay as close as possible so that others can come along later and continue the work.