Hartmut Rosa: "Following the protocols we lose the joy of living"

I ask him about the photo he has on WhatsApp and Hartmut Rosa (Lörrach, Germany, 1965) takes his mobile phone and tells me that he is not even sure how to look for it. “I try not to waste time with these things and I don't remember which one I have.” We find it, he looks at the screen and laughs. It is a close-up –which I can describe but not publish– where he appears with different sunglasses on his face. It is precisely his gaze that has X-rayed issues of extreme current importance, such as acceleration in our societies. Now he returns with Situación y constelación, a new book that has been published in Spanish by Ned Ediciones and that will be published next year in Catalan by Arcàdia, and in which he addresses how we are losing the ability to make decisions. He has spoken about it these days in Barcelona at a conference organized by CaixaForum.

I am sorry about what happened to your nephew.

— I was born in the German Black Forest and, therefore, with skis on my feet. That is why I always invite him once a year to spend one or two days on a ski slope. But the last time, upon arriving, we could not get in. I had gotten the day wrong and had bought passes for the following day.

And you tried to fix it.

— But the woman at the ticket office told me there was nothing she could do. The system did not allow changes. When I wanted to buy another ticket, it was more expensive, but there was nothing I could do either because the price is different if it is online than at the ticket office. She was truly sorry, but there was nothing she could do.

In other words, we have lost the capacity to act.

— Acting implies evaluating a situation and adapting. For example, you find yourself in a classroom, and the students might be agitated because there has been a fight, or it is very hot: a complex reality that you have to deal with. The teacher wanted to teach grammar, but reacts, adapts, and dedicates 5 minutes to whatever it is that worries them.

Is it not possible today?

— We operate with protocols. It does not matter the situation, whether it is cold or hot or it is the first hour or the last or if the children are sad or tired. It is the difference between situation –the teacher who reacts– and constellation.

Constellation…?

— It is another way of being in the world. In this system our acts are immune to context, they can be measured and are linked to executing rules, which can be technological algorithms or bureaucratic in nature.

Isn't it a way to avoid corruption?

— Yes, constellations make sense because they avoid corruption or biases. For example, ensuring that I treat students equally, whether they are men, women, native, or foreign. That is why criteria for equal treatment are set. They also make sense for efficiency. Look at the Thermomix: you only execute what the machine says, you don't have to make decisions about the salt, nor correct based on the flavor you are obtaining. You simply execute.

So, what do we lose?

— I believe, sincerely, in our humanity. A fellow professor explained to me that a girl, from a very humble background, managed to overcome various adversities to study and reach university. And at the end of the degree, the exams were already submitted at a very specific time, with a system that supervised it. She was 4 seconds late. She failed, and could not graduate that year.

What did the teacher do?

— I could do nothing about it. We no longer meet others as human agents, we are interacting as robots. And this makes us lose our capacity for action, which is fundamental, because it expresses who you are.

But do we lose as much as humanity?

— This way of being in the world and responding to a situation based on judgment and emotion is what humanity is. And we are losing it without even creating a fairer world.

Could it have to do with burnout, exhaustion linked to work?

— Think about the woman who sells tickets at the ski resort. It doesn't matter if it's her or someone else. Her job has become a shitty job, and you see that in many places. It is important to feel that you make a difference: that is when we feel alive. But you need space for action.

Do you see it at the university too?

— That is why I wrote the book, as a plea. I do not want to fall into nostalgia, but when I started, students would always approach you to discuss, for example, Marx. Now they always ask: “Is this on the exam?”

So the protocols change the characters.

— Today we know that there is a mental health problem among young people; they lack confidence in life. Having confidence implies going out into the world even if you cannot control it. I have been running camps for high school students for 30 years. When I started, they used to do many things that were not allowed, such as drinking alcohol or going out to party. Today they break the rules much less and go out less. Partying has a less controllable aspect. Like hitchhiking, it is my favorite example.

Let's see.

— I used to do it, and in the 80s it was more dangerous than now: more car accidents, more crimes, you had no option to call anyone, nor could they locate you with a mobile phone… Why did we do it? Because of the need to go out into the world. Today we have the result of a life following protocols. But I believe they pay a very high price, which is that the joy of living is lost, and trust in life. We even teach them how to play!

What do you mean?

— Lego used to be a huge box of pieces and you would build… Now they assemble the models step by step, with a guide.

Is it related to authoritarianism? 

— Burnout rates go hand in hand with authoritarianism, which is driven by rage, the idea that they are not getting from life what they were promised.

And aren't they right?

— Yes, and the sentiment is justified, but the response is erroneous because it is based on resentment: the problem is the immigrants, it is the others… But notice one thing: right-wing populists or authoritarian figures promise to be real agents.

They promise the capacity to act…

— Trump says: "I don't care what the Supreme Court or international rules say". So his supporters hope that with him they can become agents in this world. The slogan in favor of Brexit was: "Take back control".

But what do we do? The rules are important.

— I do not defend that you can do whatever you want: that is what the powerful like Trump want. We need rules, but not protocols that replace actions. For example with traffic lights, which are rules, we all act by evaluating whether or not it is time to cross. My idea is that everyone –teacher, ticket seller, everyone– needs a space for judgment, for discretion.

You speak about metanorms. What does that mean?

— It would not be about being told what to do, but rather how to relate to the rules. And in this way, they can allow us to be agents, so that there are not just rules that replace our capacity to act. And AI can help us. Meta-supervision might be possible for the first time in human history. They could help us invent a system that has rules that prevent corruption, but at the same time allow for action. I like to provide an optimistic ending. Otherwise, the feeling is that we are just sinking.