Pere Aragonès: "We have proposed a strategy, others propose rhetoric"

The vice-president of the Catalan Government and ERC candidate for the 14-F elections, Pere Aragonès, faces for the first time the challenge of leading a candidacy in the Catalan elections. And for Esquerra they are not just another election: they want to govern the Generalitat as the leading force for the first time since the restoration of democracy.

After the decision of the justice system to reject the postponement, will they make things difficult, or will we vote on 14-F?

— We have yet to read the content of the sentence, but people don't need to be bothered by it any more. Finally the court has decided on a date. It would have been much better from a health point of view, but if the ballot boxes are on February 14, we will fill them with republican votes.

How will the safety of those who go to vote and those who guard the polls be guaranteed?

— Through protocols drawn up by the Department of Health and Foreign Affairs, and agreed with the parliamentary groups. All polling stations will be safe spaces, being aware that we are in a pandemic situation and that, therefore, we will have to take extreme measures.

Will you be voting by post?

— I will vote in person in Pineda, my town.

Probably what will happen is that you will have to queue.

— No problem. If we have to queue, we will queue, and it will be a good sign. It is very important that everyone goes to vote, whether by post or in person on 14 February. It is imperative that we do not allow fear to overcome us.

Do you have any guarantee that the Post Office will be able to cope with the avalanche of early voting?

— They have reinforced the staff, Mrs. Cunillera says. In any case, what we are asking them to do is to increase the number of staff needed in the same way that we have done in the health, education and care sectors to deal with the covid.

Do you fear a large abstention?

— We should try not to. These are exceptional circumstances, which is why all the political groups agreed to move the date of the elections to a later date. When there is a ballot box the Catalans jump headlong into it.

You are vice-president of the Government but at the same time you are the highest authority in the country. Do you have the feeling that you are going to be re-elected?

— No, what I want is to win the elections to be able to exercise the leadership of the Generalitat with all the due responsibilities. Faced with the unjust disqualification of president Torra, and in the midst of the announcement of a second wave, I could have done what Salvador Illa has done, which is, in the face of a wave, not assume the responsibilities and opt for what electorally perhaps would have given me more comfort, but responsibilities had to be assumed.

There are voices that say that you have remained half-hearted in the exercise of substituting the president...

— What I want is, from February 14, that a Parliament with a republican and left-wing pro-independence majority chooses me as president. In these elections it is finally a matter of two things: either Mr Illa wins them, or I and ERC come out on top. It is obvious that the disqualification of the president Torra led to a situation that we had never experienced before.

You say that it is a matter of two, but there is a third actor which is JxCat, which governs with ERC. Are you defending enough the work of government?

— Both Ms Borràs [JxCat] and Ms Chacón [PDECat] sometimes seem as if they were not part of the government. I assume all the actions that we have carried out. Those that I like and those that perhaps I would have done differently.

Mrs Borràs has come to say that the Generalitat is an entity that is currently incapable of developing sufficient policies.

— If I thought that the Generalitat was an administration, I would not stand in the elections to be president. The Generalitat is not an agency. It is, obviously, a government that is not that of a state and has limited powers and resources, but we have to squeeze them to the maximum. Independence supporters who ignore the Generalitat are mistaken.

At the moment the situation of the pandemic in Catalonia is better than in most parts of Spain. To what do you attribute this?

— To analyse what the governments have done in relation to the coronavirus from the point of view of arrogance would be a mistake. Now there are territories that are in a more complicated situation, but there have also been times when we have been much worse. Therefore, all respect, support and encouragement to all the territories that are suffering.

Shouldn't the Generalitat have put more resources, and earlier, to help the productive economy?

— Compared to other territories of the State, it is the one that has put more resources per capita. It is not enough because we are not a State. If we look at the deficit of 2019 and 2020, Catalonia is the territory of the State in which this difference is greater. We receive 3.2 billion euros and the cost of covid for the Generalitat is of 5.3 billion.

ERC voted against the decree of the European funds in Congress and the PSOE accuses it of electioneering...

— What cannot be accepted is that there is the largest mobilization of resources in Europe since the Marshall Plan and that these 140,000 million euros that arrive will end up being decided in an office in the Moncloa without parliamentary control and without the participation of the Generalitat. My suspicion is that this will end up going to the usual companies.

If this is your fear, what do you intend to do to avoid it?

— It will be processed as a bill and here we have opportunities to change it. What is very important is a consensus and the strength of the next government to defend the projects that need to come to Catalonia.

Who would be your minister of Economy, if you win?

— We have an extraordinary team in the Department of Economy. We have Albert Castellanos, Natàlia Mas, Marta Espasa, Lluís Juncà. We have many people prepared to take on responsibilities.

The open prison regime has been granted to political prisoners. How long do you think Junqueras will be able to campaign?

— Making predictions about justice in the Spanish state is like playing tarot cards. The criteria that we have seen applied to all proceedings are not valid when it comes to pro-independence supporters. They do what suits them.

Does ERC trust the brand more than the candidate himself?

— For 40 years there have been presidents of the Generalitat who have been socialists or convergents, or post-socialists or semi-convergents. In 90 years we have not changed our name. It is time to put an end to this alternation that often turns into an alliance, such as it has done in the town hall of Barcelona. Now is the time for ERC. A new stage must be opened and the process towards independence must be led by a progressive force.

In the last elections in Parliament you lost 10,000 votes in the last weeks. What mistake did you make?

— The 2017 campaign was extremely hard, as Oriol Junqueras was imprisoned. In these three years ERC has become much stronger, we have won two general elections when nobody believed we could win them. I believe that we will be able to open this new stage with a broad government that brings together all those who defend amnesty and self-determination [ERC, JxCat, comunes and the CUP].

You want to form a government with JxCat, comunes and the CUP, but they don't want to. How will you achieve it?

— Neither did they say that we would govern jointly in Lleida, nor did they say that they would agree to vote for Pau Ricomà as mayor of Tarragona, in fact they also said that they would not vote jointly on the budgets of the Generalitat of 2020. And the CUP often has a very high level of demand, but I also think that a level of co-responsibility has to be achieved. ERC brings together those who would never agree.

Do you exclude the PSC from this formula, but would you be willing to accept the votes of the PSC to be invested?

— The PSC represents the 155 article. And they have been very clear about what they want to do. Salvador Illa wants to be the new Inés Arrimadas in these elections, it is the role he has assumed, and this has consequences.

Why can ERC reach pacts with the PSOE and not with the PSC?

— Because they are two different countries, because we are not running to govern the State, we are running to defend Catalonia, and defending Catalonia means defending the majority of the citizens of Catalonia. It is very clear that if Salvador Illa is president in the Generalitat, who will have the last word will be Pedro Sánchez.

Would an ERC victory be the triumph of your pragmatic bet?

— We can fill it with rhetoric, there may be many declaratory wills, but independence is built with large majorities, with a project that appeals to all citizens. We take the possible path and the path that will really get us there. Other paths are going round in circles. It may be an excuse to stay in power but it will not move the country forward.

When you say this about going round in circles, are you referring to Mrs. Borràs' proposal?

— What this country needs is not to approve things that we have already approved, it is to achieve independence, not to declare it so that it remains on paper. Nor to declare it to see what the pro-independence person next door does, but to achieve it. And achieving independence requires a broad majority in this country. The road to independence is not a declarative road, it has to be a real road. We have proposed a strategy, we have been doing it for a long time, and others propose rhetoric.

If more than 50% of the pro-independence votes are cast, would the DUI (the unilateral declaration for the independence of Catalonia) have to be put in place?

— The question is not to make declarations, that is, it does not have to be something that is approved in Parliament or published in an official newspaper and remain there, the question is how we make it a reality. And to make it a reality we have to change the correlation of forces, we have to be much stronger than we were in October 2017.

Name three policy priorities of the next legislature if you become president.

— Strengthening public services, channelling European funds towards truly transformative projects, and thirdly, alliances. Alliances within the country and alliances outside of it. We can do this with the other territories of the Catalan Countries, and at a European level.

What would have been different if the Generalitat had had financial autonomy in recent months?

— We would have been able to inject many more resources into the most affected economic sectors.

Would you sit down at a table to negotiate autonomous financing?

— The Spanish government is not willing to put more resources on the table, but once it has been established, we must not miss any opportunity to defend the resources that Catalonia needs. There is a very important challenge, which is the public health system. If necessary, we must open a loophole for the specific financing of health in our country.

ERC does not have a president of the Generalitat since Tarradellas (who was president from 1954 to 1980). Do you see this as a responsibility?

— A responsibility, and an enthusiasm. ERC created the Generalitat again in 1931, we defended it in exile and we kept the flame burning. After 40 years of alternation between convergent and socialist presidents, now the best way to move the country forward is a return to the origins, and the origins of the Generalitat are republican.