Josep Vicenç Mestre: "Puigdemont has the passion of Macià, and Pujol has the sanity of Prat de la Riba."

BarcelonaBorn in Òdena in 1990, Josep Vicenç Mestre holds a doctorate cum laude and has received an award for the best doctoral thesis in Catalan from the Pompeu Fabra University for his study on the analysis of the speeches of the presidents of Catalonia between 1914 and 1933. This thesis gave rise to the book President's remarks. Nation and State in the speeches of Prat de la Riba, Puig i Cadafalch, and Macià (Editorial Asuntos, 2024). He is an associate professor at UPF and a former advisor to the Junts government and to the Parliamentary Speaker Laura Borràs.

What is the objective of your doctoral thesis?

— Between 2015 and 2016, at the height of the independence movement, I wondered if this has always been the case. The answer is no, and I studied the beginnings of the independence movement and what the mainstream Catalan movement thought over time. Catalan movement wasn't pro-independence until 2015, when Junts pel Sí won the elections with an absolute majority. Before that, there was an independence movement, but it wasn't a majority movement.

What is the common thread between the three presidents you analyze?

— At that time, they believed that the universal trend would lead to a Europe of autonomies. That's why, in 1919, Puig i Cadafalch defended autonomy for Catalonia, following Prat de la Riba's example. We must bear in mind that we are taking a snapshot of a historical moment; at the time, the international context was not one of state secession, but of state conglomeration.

Has any of the presidents wanted to reform Spain more than others?

— Prat imagines the concept of Catalonia both within and without. Within Spain, he wants to nationalize Catalonia, but he also sends Francesc Cambó to the rest of Spain to spread the desire for federation. Puig i Cadafalch, on the other hand, is no longer so interested in this. He doesn't stop negotiating with Madrid and focuses on Catalonia, on its own culture, language, architecture, and archaeology. He takes refuge in identity. Paradoxically, Macià believes that Spain should be a traveling companion despite being pro-independence. He himself proclaimed the Catalan republic in a telephone conversation with Niceto Alcalá-Zamora.

If you had to draw parallels with contemporary presidents, what would they be?

— Jordi Pujol is a mixture of Prat de la Riba and Puig i Cadafalch. I would compare José Montilla to Puig i Cadafalch, because he is more of an actionist than a wordist, while Artur Mas always refers to the framework of Prat de la Riba's thinking and the experience of Macià, although I think he is more similar to the former. Carles Puigdemont, on the other hand, is a Macià 2.0; they even have in common that they made an incursion into Catalonia before finally returning from exile. I would say Puigdemont has Macià's fickleness, and Pujol has Prat de la Riba's sanity. Quim Torra would also, I think, be more similar to Macià due to his activism, and, in turn, Pere Aragonès shares his language with Puig i Cadafalch because he speaks of the transformations of the country and Catalonia as a whole—Puig spoke of Catalonia as a whole. I don't think Salvador Illa resembles any of the three: he's a free-for-all because, since the return of democracy, he's the most pro-Spanish president Catalonia has ever had.

PSC and Isla are part of the tradition of Catalan political activism. Who decides who's there and who's not?

— I understand that everyone wants to refer to themselves however they want. As an academic, I couldn't currently refer to the PSC in the Catalanist tradition. That of Maragall and that of Montilla, of course.

What's the difference between Illa's PSC and that of Maragall and Montilla?

— President Isla is well aware that he is part of the State and that he doesn't need to reform Spain for Catalonia to be better off. On the other hand, Maragall and Montilla do argue that Spain should be reformed so that Catalonia can better fit in.

If you had to choose the best speaker of the time, who would you choose?

— Contemporary sources say that neither Prat, Puig, nor Macià were good orators, but I do believe that with their words they transformed their times. Prat de la Riba, for example, used many adjectives and a complex vocabulary. Puig was direct, harsh, and candid; he went about his work, didn't dwell too much on subtleties or trying to please the public; he dedicated himself to talking from one program to another. Macià, on the other hand, was an unflappable dreamer; he liked to listen to people and respond to the intangible feelings of the people. If Prat is the idealist who imagines what Catalonia wants tomorrow, and Puig the implementer of theory and the one who works on identity, Macià is capable of connecting with the people, but he doesn't talk as much about the country he wants. I often think that Prat de la Riba did much more for Catalonia than Macià did on an effective scale. So, just as we go to his grave on December 25th, perhaps we should also go to Prat's grave on August 1st, which is just a few meters away. We should pay tribute to him for all the work he did for the country, but we don't.