Oriol Junqueras: "It is impossible for a nation to achieve fulfillment if it hates half of its population."

BarcelonaOriol Junqueras, president of the ERC party, visits the ARA (Argentine National Assembly) the day after formalizing his intention to run for president of the Generalitat.

What has changed for you to now announce that you want to run for president of the Generalitat?

— I've only had the opportunity to be one once, which was in 2012, and I like to help wherever I can from all sides. Therefore, if my colleagues would trust me, I'd be happy to try to help the country. If it can be as a candidate for the presidency of the Generalitat (Catalan government) and one day as president of Catalonia, then so much the better. Our goal is not the presidency of the Generalitat (Catalan government), but the presidency of the Catalan Republic.

Why trust you after the experience of 2017?

— Because I'm convinced that what we did in 2017 was extraordinary, because it was the greatest challenge ever launched against Spain in democratic terms, because the State could only stop it with anti-democratic tools, and because I'm convinced that we are in a position to take our country where it deserves to be.

Do you understand that there is a certain debate among people who believe that both you and Mr. Puigdemont should step aside?

— I find it extraordinary that everyone has their own opinion, and that everyone shows up wherever they want, and that those who believe they have a better alternative defend it. The important thing is that we can do useful things for our schools, institutes, hospitals, etc. The rest of the debates are trivial.

For the upcoming elections, you're starting with the current 20 deputies that Esquerra has. Do you have any goals?

— The goal is the freedom of Catalonia. If we can do it instead of 20, 40, 60, or 80 times, then so much the better.

What if they make 10?

— Well, it means that we haven't been able to communicate with each other and that the country has decided that there was someone more useful.

And would you go home with that result?

— Yes, with that scenario, I'm sure it will.

Today is the 8th anniversary of 1-O.

— Yes, we're incredibly proud of the mobilization we achieved. Holding that referendum wasn't easy, despite everything they did to try to prevent it, not only on the day of the referendum, but before and, obviously, everything we did afterward.

A referendum was held on October 1st, but the goal was independence. Something that didn't happen.

— Indeed, something I regret the most, because if we had achieved independence, we would have saved ourselves several years in prison, for example.

Eight years ago, half of the Catalan population was mobilized for independence, but the other half wasn't. Was this segment of the population not sufficiently taken into account?

— We must always try to take everyone into account.

There are people within the Esquerra party who have made this self-criticism.

— I think it's always a good idea. We must always try to go further and reach more people. We said this as many times as we could, and we tried every means possible.

One of the lessons from that period is that you can't set deadlines for a goal as ambitious as independence.

— The thing is, independence isn't a matter of time; it's a matter of strength, democratic strength. And therefore, if we had it all, time would be infinitely short.

But not only democratic, there is also coercive force.

— And to overturn the coercive force used by the State, we need more democratic force, more support, more consensus, more accompaniment.

You spoke of a national understanding.

— Because this majority isn't just a majority of political parties. It's a social majority. Because the rights of all will be better defended under a republic, because only an independent Catalonia will spare future generations from being governed by someone like the PP and Vox for at least half their years.

So this understanding is not addressed to political actors?

— Of course, yes, too.

Which is it?

— In Junts, and in the CUP, all the agents...

In the PSC, right?

— If you want to join us on the path toward better financing, better railway management, or tax collection, of course you're welcome. The fact is that if we pro-independence parties weren't there, the PSC wouldn't be defending a financing model or tax collection.

Are you saying that the PSC are federalists because there are independentists on their side?

— It's obvious. And because Catalonia is a nation. If Catalonia weren't a nation, no one would feel the need to claim it. And many people would join this disappointing flock of people who are nostalgic for a provincial Spain.

There is also a segment of the Catalan population that is pro-independence and openly Islamophobic.

— Yes, and they yearn for the Catalonia of the 9th century, when more than half the territory was populated solely by Muslims. Yes, since people don't know history, they yearn for things that, if they were faced with them, they wouldn't know how to handle. And in 1600, a third of the men living in Catalonia were born abroad. So, even then, we were a diverse country. This country has experienced these migratory processes intensely at many moments in its history, and they haven't led to authoritarian impulses.

And now yes?

— That impulse exists. But what explains the authoritarian impulse isn't immigration, it's inequality, injustice. It stems from a lack of hope.

I'll read you a quote from your lecture: "We need to seduce and win people over. It's not a luxury, it's a necessity." Are you saying that Catalans can't afford to be xenophobic but should seduce newcomers?

— It's impossible for a nation to grow to its full national potential if it hates half of its population. A nation is many things, but it's also its people. And if you hate your people, it's impossible for your nation to be a great nation.

Do you understand the certain identity-based stress that a citizen of Catalonia might feel when he believes the landscape is changing and sees how Catalan is losing importance and presence in public spaces?

— I share it, of course.

And how do we ensure that this doesn't translate into votes for the far right?

— That's why we must combat fear and hopelessness. The social ladder must work, there must be equal opportunity, because without equal opportunity, meritocracy is a farce. That's precisely why we need to put the country's resources at the service of the country, and we're fighting for a financing model. The mind-boggling thing is that we have to fight alone.

Why do you say that? Aren't you aligned with the PSC and Junts on this issue?

— Let's say it's more noticeable. Is Juntos aligned or not? It doesn't seem to help us. I don't hear them say it, I don't hear them complain about it, but, in any case, if I did, I'd celebrate it greatly.

Tell me how this matter is.

— It's incredibly complicated, and it's clear that, if it were up to the PSOE, there wouldn't be a financing model or anything. They've been using the outdated model for years and haven't felt the need to update it.

Why is it so complicated?

— Because they don't want to. And how do we know they don't want to? Because they haven't done anything to fix it. Ximo Puig lost the Valencian Generalitat because he didn't have the resources for his hospitals and schools. And despite his repeated insistence, the PSOE never listened. They let him fall.

But won't there be a proposal soon?

— It's all very well to assume whatever you want to assume, but, in any case, if you end up being there, it will be because Esquerra Republicana is insisting on this issue every day and reminding everyone that until the issue of the financing model and tax collection is resolved, there will be no budget, there will be no budget negotiations.

What will happen if they put a significant amount on the table but the ordinality is not met?

— What they'll do is try to propose something that's far from what it should be, but there's a part of Catalan society that says... OK! And then they'll try to get a part of Catalan society to pressure us into accepting it.

Do you feel like you're doing the work for many sectors of Catalan society that don't lift a finger?

— If we did it with more company, we would be happier.

Now there's another party also negotiating with the PSOE, Junts, which is threatening to stop supporting Sánchez...

— We've already done this; we've said there will be no budget negotiations. At least in that respect, they're late.

But they can go further; they can decide to vote no on everything presented in Congress.

— We won't vote no on everything presented in Congress, because some of the things that will be presented are good for Catalonia.

In your conference yesterday, you appear with only the name of the conference, your signature, a flag, and an Estelada, right? The Esquerra logo doesn't appear. Is there a specific reason for this?

— Because it's so obvious that I'm from the Republican Left that it might have been redundant. All candidates should aspire to win their country's electoral vote. If not, we're bad candidates.

It seems as though you would like to have elections next month.

— We always love elections; we're in love with the ballot box, and now all we need is for the ballot box to fall a little more in love with us.