Pere Aragonès: "An exclusive nation project is the quickest way to cease being a nation."

BarcelonaPere Aragonès (Pineda de Mar, 1982), former president of the Generalitat (Catalan government), visits the ARA the week that marks a year since the Catalan elections were brought forward and ERC lost the presidency of the Catalan government.

How do you cope with being away from power for a year?

— You see things from a different perspective. Some debates that seemed like the end of the world if left unresolved end up becoming much less important, and it allows you to see the challenges that are.

And what are they?

— How do we make Catalonia a country that continues to generate prosperity and maintain its own identity? We are undergoing a profound demographic shift that implies a change in the way welfare state services are delivered. And the language.

President Isla has maintained the National Language Pact, the fruit of what you initiated. How do you explain the lack of unanimous support?

— I'm sorry, because the content of the pact is sound. I was surprised that Junts wasn't there. An agreement on language within Catalonia is important enough to not make it dependent on decisions from a Constitutional Court or third-party member states of the European Union. It should be an agreement within Catalonia.

So what do you attribute it to?

— When I was president of the Generalitat, I had the feeling that they didn't want to give President Aragonés a victory. They don't want to give one to President Isla either. Waiting for a Junts president to make a language pact isn't the way forward. Political strategy has weighed more than a commitment to the language. I hope they join in later.

What national pact does Catalonia need in the face of rapid immigration and an aging population?

— Welfare state services must be strengthened. We have a birth rate of less than 1.2 children per woman, and immigration is inevitable for the model to be sustained. We must ensure that this is not a problem, but an opportunity.

What do you think is the reason for the rise of the far-right Vox and Catalan Alliance?

— It's a phenomenon occurring all over the world. The question is how we respond. The clear way is to wage a fight for values. We cannot exclude people's rights, and the far right believes we can. With a discourse of a homeland that excludes, we will not advance. In fact, an exclusionary nation is the fastest path to ceasing to be a nation. An inclusive nation is a steeper, more difficult path, with blows and mistakes, but it is the only way to remain a nation.

Is the path to independence more difficult with a pro-independence far-right?

— One of the arguments we've had to combat in recent years is that we were exclusionary nationalists. And we explained that the Catalan independence movement is politically diverse. Now, unfortunately, there's a far right that's using the frustration of a portion of the population with the Trial to instill an Islamophobic and absolutely retrograde rhetoric.

Do you also feel responsible for this frustration?

— If we had won independence, we would probably be in different circumstances now. If we had been aware that this risk was real, surely the dynamics for everyone would have been different. We must put aside the blame and accept our diversity so that we can one day find ourselves again, working together to advance toward independence.

Why did Esquerra fall to 20 seats?

— It's a combination of things. We have a negative cycle that begins with the municipal elections, continues through the general elections, and reaches the parliamentary elections and, to a certain extent, the European elections. We haven't managed to reverse it. The anti-repression link also broke down, and we weren't able to fill it sufficiently. And government management from a progressive, pro-independence perspective with a national vision, coming from the declaration of independence in 2017, probably found a portion of the electorate insufficiently attractive.

In the upcoming municipal elections, do you expect results similar to those predicted by the polls for Aliança?

— The results achieved by the far-right independence movement will not be as important as the pacts that can be made afterwards, which should be avoided.

Are you saying that Junts could make a pact with Alianza?

— I hope no one makes a deal, because it would mean giving them a decision-making role and they would have policies incompatible with this model of an inclusive nation.

Has the Left been brave enough on immigration?

— Yes, we understand that being brave doesn't mean kicking out everyone who's arrived, but rather implementing policies and measures to guarantee inclusion. One of the programs I'm most proud of during my administration is the ACOL program, which has allowed hundreds of people who were in this administrative irregularity to find work.

What is your assessment of Esquerra's support for the Spanish government?

— If someone had told us eight years ago that the Socialist Party would accept a process of negotiation and recognition of the political conflict, we would have said it was impossible. There are other very important agreements, such as the release of prisoners, and, above all, the prevention of more people going to prison. We've opened the can of worms regarding one-off financing, which a year ago, when I presented the proposal, I was told would not be included. The pros outweigh the cons, especially because the alternative is a PP-Vox government.

Do you think Sánchez will finish his term?

— In the last conversation I had with him, I saw that he was very convinced.

A year ago you called elections. Would you do it again?

— I had no choice. It was the right decision. The alternative would have been to move forward without a budget, as is happening now, but with the difference that there was a constant pressure from Junts and PSC, both trying to set the political agenda. We would have ended up in government just to be there, but with our hands tied.

President Isla will not call elections.

— This is his decision. In any case, he doesn't have the leverage I had in Parliament. And I think this works in his favor. However, it's important for a country to have a budget.

The elections also led to the start of an internal war within the Left. How did you experience it?

— With sadness, because we didn't do it well. The debate took place with broken personal trusts, disappointments... I'm not proud of how we handled this collectively.

Do you still think Oriol Junqueras should step down from the political frontline?

— What I defended at the time remains valid. But the members of Esquerra Party (ESC) said that Oriol Junqueras deserved to continue leading the party, and from that moment on, he has had my full support.

But you did not attend the second session of the March congress.

— Because I think we didn't know how to leave behind that previous dynamic that we didn't like.

He's telling me about the commission's findings on the Maragall posters.

— The Maragalls' posters are absolutely repugnant and deplorable. We must go all the way and do it properly. A political commission was formed, within the framework of a congress in which we were experiencing internal divisions, which couldn't end well, and it didn't end well. I didn't feel comfortable. Now I hope the guarantees commission carries out its work.

How did Esquerra get to the point where it could address the Maragall posters?

— It will have to be determined through an investigation by the Guarantees Commission. There have been very detailed journalistic investigations, but I want to wait and see what the Guarantees Commission says.

Are you disappointed with some of the people around you?

— With the general situation. Surely everyone, if they were to take a step back, would make different decisions to prevent these events from happening. Activism is one thing; it's another when it's applied in a way it shouldn't be applied.

These days we've been seeing some very serious news about the DGAIA, such as the case involving a 12-year-old girl. Were you aware of its malfunction?

— It remains to be seen whether the measures will be activated as soon as this is known. We must go all the way. There's a second issue, which is whether, within the framework of the services provided by the DGAIA, any entity or user has committed any type of fraud, and they must act. And then there's the issue of contracting. There were weeks when we received 100 unaccompanied minors in Barcelona. In one week, you can't carry out a normal public contracting procedure to open a center, and you have to rely on what you have. If any of these things are wrong, they will have to be corrected.

Will it now move into the private sphere?

— I'm looking forward to doing other things. In the coming months, there will surely be new developments that won't be at the political level.

What is the best thing that has happened to you this year?

— Regaining quality time. Especially with my family and my children, like taking my daughter to school almost every day.

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