Daniel Turienzo: "Repeating a year is ineffective, unfair, and expensive."

BarcelonaDaniel Turienzo (1987) has worked as a teacher in different autonomous communities and has also taught at various Spanish universities. He now works as an assistant to the Ministry of Education at the Spanish Embassy in Morocco. Together with Professor Jesús Rogero, they have written Educa Fakes, A book that aims to expose the 50 lies and half-truths about Spanish education.

What is the biggest lie told about the Spanish education sector?

— That the people who have progressed the most in the education system are those who have worked hardest. In other words, the belief that the education system fully guarantees equal opportunities.

And the truth that is always hidden?

— That education is linked to other policies. We have a hard time recognizing that education isn't something that occurs in isolation, but is also linked to policies such as housing, which influence educational outcomes or poverty rates. If we want to improve in the educational sphere, we also need to improve in the social sphere. We generally struggle to accept that any change is complex. Therefore, when explaining any educational phenomenon, it's often easier to resort to simplistic arguments that fit our prejudices and stereotypes than to look for the complex causes behind any transformation process.

One of the first claims the book debunks is that education today is worse than it was in the past. However, an analysis of the latest PISA results confirms a...

— The first problem we have is assuming that the quality of the education system is measured only by PISA results. In today's Spanish society, people have a higher educational level, the level of skills is also higher, more people are going to university, we have more children in school, and there is less dropout rate. Therefore, there are a whole series of indicators that do show that we are doing better, although there are also others, such as the PISA tests, that indicate that we are not improving. But we are not saying that education today is better, but simply that it is not worse.

He emphasizes that school dropout rates have decreased; however, there is still a strong push for repeating a year. Is this useful?

— Repeating a year is known as the "French disease" because it was so abused in the neighboring country's education system, but precisely now France and other countries have approved reforms that have stopped students from repeating. When we analyze the PISA data, we see that our students have similar performance to neighboring countries, but they still repeat much more. The causes must be sought in the social use that has been made of repeating a year. Teachers and families welcome repeating students, but it is ineffective because most students no longer know anything after repeating. It is an unfair policy because it affects disadvantaged classes more, and it is also very expensive because it not only has costs for the students who repeat, but also very high economic costs. I believe there are alternatives that would be much more effective.

How now?

— Well, early detection of difficulties, identifying profiles that might be at greater risk of developing lower skills, tutoring in small groups, classroom reinforcement... These are a series of measures that could bring us better results and reduce the overuse of repetition. The problem is that we haven't been able to give teachers a clear answer to this problem.

We're talking specifically about teachers. Are they suffering from social discredit?

— In surveys, the social assessment of teachers remains high. However, teachers don't perceive it this way. Furthermore, we are in a vicious cycle: when a social problem is detected, it is not publicly acknowledged; instead, we expect it to be addressed through school education. Teacher training is ultimately attributed the ability, for example, to combat gender violence, the intensive use of technology, access to pornography... If we continue generating new demands and don't accompany them with long-term resources and proposals, we are placing teachers in a difficult position because they will increasingly feel challenged and will never be able to meet them all. In this context, we must not forget that we are in one of the best moments in history in terms of the level of teacher training.

We're in the pre-registration period. Do you learn more in a public, private, or charter school?

— International studies conclude that there is no added value to studying in a charter or private school compared to a public school in Spain, except for the potential for school segregation. Some families seek social differentiation and find it in charter and private schools, but, to date, no significant improvements have been observed related to the school's ownership.

Finally, a topic that you intentionally decided not to include in the book, but which is still very relevant and about which you have written extensively: should schools have split or continuous school days?

This is the key issue. What we are clear about is that a broader debate is needed because it is currently very flawed from the outset, and both alternatives pose many risks. The continuous school day carries the risk of the disappearance of the cafeteria service and extracurricular activities, of schools being closed in the afternoon, and of not being a space for socializing in the neighborhood. As for the split school day, it carries the risk of children arriving home at 8 p.m. or having ten- or twelve-hour school days. We must approach this debate in much broader terms, also including an assessment of the school calendar: whether, for example, there should be more or fewer school days, whether the number of class hours needs to be reconsidered, how school and non-school hours are structured...