Antonio Villarreal: There are consultants who have journalists hired who go to talk shows

It's probably the most repetitive format. We can find it in the morning, at noon, and at night, on the radio and on television. Antonio Villarreal has decided to analyze it in Tertulianos (Peninsula), a journey through 40 years of the opinion industry in Spain, and a photograph, at the same time, of a sector that moves between precariousness and power.

Talk shows begin with an absence.

— A group of Transition journalists, including Fernando Ónega, met every Thursday with an important politician of the time to have breakfast and discuss current affairs. And one day the politician failed.

And then...

The journalists began to discuss current affairs, and Ónega, who was at SER, said: "This has to be brought to the radio." And they created La trastienda, a cheeky program with the idea of explaining information that was not always published in print.

It didn't last long.

One day, José Luis Gutiérrez announced on air that a woman had been sent to Rome because she was pregnant with a politician with whom she had an extramarital affair. It turned out to be Alfonso Guerra. He lashed out at the talk shows, and SER banned them for a decade.

But Del Olmo picked up the gauntlet.

And the one that for me is the mother of all talk shows arrives, the one he created on the program Protagonistas. He took the invention to early prime time, and it worked very well.

I remember the story of Norma Duval's slap...

Jiménez Arnau suggested that she was a showgirl in the service of the PP and she got angry and threw a shoe at his head.

— Since it was radio, there is no image, but I think it was a foundational moment.

Of what?

Beyond talking about ideas, the confrontation between panelists is a kind of show. And this is what ends up being transferred to television, with the talk shows of the 90s and a key name: Xavier Sardà, who took them first to Moros y cristianos and then to Crónicas marcianas.

You say that the minimum unit of information is no longer the news.

No, it's opinion.

There are many people who basically inform themselves by watching talk shows on television. And the process of polarization in politics is also evident in talk shows.

When do they polarize?

In 2008, in a very short time, El gato al agua, on Intereconomía, and Al rojo vivo, on La Sexta, were born. It is also when El chiringuito begins. It is largely explained by the crisis, because many media outlets had to make cutbacks and they saw what was happening with El gato al agua and low cost talk shows. And they took note.

Pablo Iglesias started to participate in Intereconomía.

It is where he made his brand, Podem, known. But the most important thing, and this coincides with the emergence of the Catalan independence movement and other leaders like Rufián, is that they do not confront what is in front of them. Or not only. They understand the relationship with the viewer, they share their best clips later on social media, thus taking the talk show a step further.

Everyone does it now.

Because we have reached the peak of those who fight on TV, then they continue on social media and then they record themselves responding.

It's the infinite talk show.

How are the panelists chosen?

— There are many tensions. The program director chooses, the management also puts names on the table... Many factors are involved.

And how do the parties influence it?

They have a lot of influence, especially in public media. Aznar, for example, completely changed the panelists on La 1. Now they also suggest names, send the party's arguments to some panelists, send them messages about things they have said.

And I know that there are also journalists who talk to the parties to ask them to put their name down to appear on a program.

Journalists who ask parties for it?

Yes. Although journalists are now a bit on the back foot, because there are other profiles of people coming from social media, consultants... It worries me: you know where a journalist comes from and who pays them, but there are many people whose money source you don't know. I know that there are consultants who have contracted journalists who go to talk shows and help various employers' associations, such as the real estate one. What will they say about housing?

You talk about tertuliocracy.

It is used in the United States to talk about pundits, who are commentators usually experts in a topic. Here we have more generalists who give opinions on everything. The fact is that politicians come and go, but they always remain, like a kind of aristocracy that transcends. Politicians grant them more social capital, because they are aware that they have more power.

Are there many of them?

I analyzed the five main national radio and TV channels for two weeks. I found 314 of them. But those who repeated more than once are just over 50.

Can it be a profession?

For some it is, yes. Although they are not called panelists, which is a concept not widely used here. They present themselves as political analysts or something similar.

But they don't get paid much.

— About 150 on average, but then they work their social media, go to conferences, present events...

They used to earn money, didn't they?

It is said that Pedro J. Ramírez earned 6,000 euros per appearance on 59 segundos.

But, with the crisis and the proliferation of talk shows, they now earn much less.

Your favorite moment of a talk show.

When something unexpected happens and they go to commercial break, or the presenter does a brief interview and they dive into their iPads to gather information. Suddenly they talk very naturally about the GDP of such a foreign country, or about the debt a company had 4 years ago. And they seem to know everything, but they've just read it. They make it sound natural, despite everything.