Hervé Le Tellier: "It's easier to be a fascist than a democrat"

BarcelonaThe French writer, mathematician, and journalist Hervé Le Tellier (Paris, 1957) was searching for a "birthplace," a place where he could invent roots, in Montjòus, near Dieulofet, in what is now the French region of Auvergne-Roine-Alps, and stumbled upon a name on the wall: André Chaix, a member of the French Maquis against the Nazis. Through the search for the short life of this young Frenchman, the author reflects on the rise of Nazism, but also paints a rather unsettling portrait of our society. The name on the wall (Edicions 62/Seix Barral), translated into Catalan by Jordi Boixadós, the editor and literary critic, winner of the Goncourt Prize 2020 with The anomaly (Editions 62)It speaks of solidarity and resistance, but also of how easily we can become fascists.

The book stems from a real and personal experience. What prompted you to write it?

— In 2020, during lockdown, I saw André's name on u`pan muro. I had just emerged from the whirlwind of the Goncourt Prize and wanted to write a short, simple book. I decided to write about André and the Maquis in that region. I found a small box containing everything I needed to write it. I could talk about who he was and about Dieulofet, which has a certain uniqueness because it's a resistance village. Before I had even finished writing the book, the Hamas attacks occurred, the Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip, Trump's election... And the book's narrative shifted because the world was changing radically. Everything that had happened in the 1930s and 40s resonated powerfully.

Why is Dieulofet so peculiar?

— There were about a thousand people in the village who were refugees, migrants, Jews... They were hidden and no one reported them. Therefore, the village, in its own way, offered a kind of passive resistance to the occupiers. It's a somewhat remote village in the Alps.

What particular idiosyncrasies does it have, and how does it differ from other populations?

— There are Protestants, who were persecuted for centuries in France by the Ancien Régime, and Catholics who welcomed these Protestants. Therefore, there is a historical tradition of both opposition to central power and welcoming of persecuted populations. When the Jews arrived, the population didn't know exactly what it meant to be Jewish, but they welcomed them naturally. They didn't understand why they were being persecuted. It remains a welcoming city. There is a migrant shelter that welcomes Palestinians, Syrians, and people of all kinds who are experiencing great hardship. The city's slogan remains: "In Dieulofet, no one is a stranger, no one is an outsider."

In the book he writes that he may have pity for the young men swallowed up in the black spiral of the Gammada Cross, but he has no indulgence for the French who let cowardice or the desire for a career define their destiny.

— There is a very clear distinction that must be made between the Vichy regime and these auxiliaries or very young people who enlisted. I differentiate between this youth, a lost youth, without education or training, and those at the top, the ideologues.

The book contains many reflections that resonate with the times we live in. One is the fragility of democracy and the speed at which fascism spreads.

— It's like truth and lies. Mark Twain said, "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." It's like when someone says the Earth is flat, and then someone else needs ten minutes to contradict them. And we see this now on social media, with the Trump administration, which is the queen of lies. The same thing happens with fascism and democracy. It's much more complicated to debate than to silence people. And that's why fascism advances so quickly, because it doesn't need debate. You just have to give an order, and an army or collaborators quickly follow, while democracy is something reasoned and, therefore, slower. What we see today is a struggle between people who act in their own self-interest and those who try to resist without using the same weapons. Fascism convinces with lies and hatred. Perhaps what democracy lacks is the capacity to respond, and that's the fault of its leaders. It must be very strong and not submit. But this isn't easy.

Is it cheaper to be a fascist than a democrat?

— We are not spontaneously fascists, but it is easier to be a fascist than a democrat. This is due to reasons related to our very nature: our capacity to conform and adapt to the group, to submit to authority, and ultimately, our tendency toward violence. It is part of our DNA and our animality. It saved us in the Neolithic era, but it poses some problems in civilized societies. Look, I use a phrase by Malraux that I find very fitting. Malraux stated that fascism is less a doctrine than a state of mind; he associated it with pessimism. He also said that there was no loyalty behind a fascist. The fascist has a negative view of the world. Democracies survive thanks to fraternity, and that fraternity should not be limited to the tribe but should extend to all of humanity. And perhaps one day we will understand that it is necessary to broaden it even to include animal species.

In the book, he criticizes the overuse of the word terroristWho would be interested in using it?

— Everyone is a terrorist to someone. The struggles of peoples without an army are labeled as terrorist. The French Resistance was considered terrorist. Trump uses the word terrorist, also domestic terrorist"Terrorist" is a word used to discredit someone's opponents. It's not used, for example, when referring to a state's military organizations. However, I believe that Israel has a terrorist army today because it is destroying an entire people. Terrorism It's used in the worst possible way, and I think we should never use it. I'm suspicious of it. I prefer, for example, the terms oppressor, resistant either war criminalwhich are words that make more sense to me.